<!DOCTYPE HTML PUBLIC "-//W3C//DTD HTML 4.0 Transitional//EN"> <HTML><HEAD> <META http-equiv=Content-Type content="text/html; charset=us-ascii"> <META content="MSHTML 6.00.6000.16481" name=GENERATOR> <STYLE></STYLE> </HEAD> <BODY style="WORD-WRAP: break-word; -khtml-nbsp-mode: space; -khtml-line-break: after-white-space" bgColor=#ffffff> <DIV dir=ltr align=left><SPAN class=640335416-09082007><FONT color=#000080>Ed,</FONT></SPAN></DIV> <DIV dir=ltr align=left><SPAN class=640335416-09082007><FONT color=#000080></FONT></SPAN> </DIV> <DIV dir=ltr align=left><SPAN class=640335416-09082007><FONT color=#000080>As far as the disagreements go, I'll stay out of it.</FONT></SPAN></DIV> <DIV dir=ltr align=left><SPAN class=640335416-09082007><FONT color=#000080></FONT></SPAN> </DIV> <DIV dir=ltr align=left><SPAN class=640335416-09082007><FONT color=#000080>Based on your statement about pianists feeling jack alignment, I must respectfully disagree.  Most pianists with reasonable skill will feel .5mm misalignment, but will not be able to identify it as such.  It is very important to be very even, although the exact best location might be debatable.</FONT></SPAN></DIV> <DIV dir=ltr align=left><SPAN class=640335416-09082007><FONT color=#000080></FONT></SPAN> </DIV> <DIV dir=ltr align=left><SPAN class=640335416-09082007><FONT color=#000080>Don Mannino</FONT></SPAN></DIV><BR> <BLOCKQUOTE dir=ltr style="PADDING-LEFT: 5px; MARGIN-LEFT: 5px; BORDER-LEFT: #000080 2px solid; MARGIN-RIGHT: 0px"> <DIV class=OutlookMessageHeader lang=en-us dir=ltr align=left> <HR tabIndex=-1> <FONT face=Tahoma size=2><B>From:</B> caut-bounces@ptg.org [mailto:caut-bounces@ptg.org] <B>On Behalf Of </B>Ed Sutton<BR><B>Sent:</B> Thursday, August 09, 2007 9:04 AM<BR><B>To:</B> College and University Technicians<BR><B>Subject:</B> Re: [CAUT] Black on Black... (Jack alignment)<BR></FONT><BR></DIV> <DIV></DIV> <DIV><FONT face=Arial size=2>Tim and Fred-</FONT></DIV> <DIV><FONT face=Arial size=2></FONT> </DIV> <DIV><FONT face=Arial size=2>Let's see.  </FONT></DIV> <DIV><FONT face=Arial size=2></FONT> </DIV> <DIV><FONT face=Arial size=2>You guys are disagreeing about the exact placement of 88 little sticks in a 900 pound box.</FONT></DIV> <DIV><FONT face=Arial size=2></FONT> </DIV> <DIV><FONT face=Arial size=2>By the time you're done with your adjustments, the result may be the same, or may even vary as much as .7mm!</FONT></DIV> <DIV><FONT face=Arial size=2></FONT> </DIV> <DIV><FONT face=Arial size=2>If there is a difference, probably 2 piano technicians in 300 could feel it, maybe 1 pianist in 300.</FONT></DIV> <DIV><FONT face=Arial size=2></FONT> </DIV> <DIV><FONT face=Arial size=2>Sounds like a good topic for a Blood Feud!       ;-)</FONT></DIV> <DIV><FONT face=Arial size=2></FONT> </DIV> <DIV><FONT face=Arial size=2>When I think about the stuff other people do, I think we are pretty lucky to be worrying about jack/knuckle alignment.</FONT></DIV> <DIV><FONT face=Arial size=2></FONT> </DIV> <DIV><FONT face=Arial size=2>Anyway, I am grateful for folks who are so passionate about this work.</FONT></DIV> <DIV><FONT face=Arial size=2></FONT> </DIV> <DIV><FONT face=Arial size=2>Ed Sutton</FONT></DIV> <BLOCKQUOTE dir=ltr style="PADDING-RIGHT: 0px; PADDING-LEFT: 5px; MARGIN-LEFT: 5px; BORDER-LEFT: #000000 2px solid; MARGIN-RIGHT: 0px"> <DIV style="FONT: 10pt arial">----- Original Message ----- </DIV> <DIV style="BACKGROUND: #e4e4e4; FONT: 10pt arial; font-color: black"><B>From:</B> <A title=tcoates1@sio.midco.net href="mailto:tcoates1@sio.midco.net">Tim Coates</A> </DIV> <DIV style="FONT: 10pt arial"><B>To:</B> <A title=caut@ptg.org href="mailto:caut@ptg.org">College and University Technicians</A> </DIV> <DIV style="FONT: 10pt arial"><B>Sent:</B> Thursday, August 09, 2007 10:39 AM</DIV> <DIV style="FONT: 10pt arial"><B>Subject:</B> Re: [CAUT] Black on Black... (Jack alignment)</DIV> <DIV><BR></DIV>Hi Fred, <DIV><BR class=khtml-block-placeholder></DIV> <DIV>I did not feel I was doubting your respect for fellow technicians.  I am sorry if you took it that way.   I was only trying to point out Michael Wathen was giving credit where due (to Bill Garlick), but some how was ignored.   I was also pointing out how quickly we forget past important members of this wonderful trade.  I have always had the highest respect for you ever since I first heard your name and witnessed your interaction on a panel at the national PTG convention in Albuquerque.   I must admit I you look a little more tame now than you did back then, but I had a little more top hair than exposed skin then <g>.</DIV> <DIV><BR class=khtml-block-placeholder></DIV> <DIV>My respect for you is also why I tried to state my disagreement with you in a frame that your method works for you and mine for me.  Hence the sentences "For me,  you are wrong about the rapid flick motion.   But you can do that if you want.  You know what works best for you."   It is  important for us to disagree.   What works for your climate doesn't work for my climate.  I have drastic changes every 3 months (sometimes known as money in the bank).   There are things I do to try to create jack slippage such as pushing the hammer below the hammerline while applying strong force on the key.  No one plays that way, but it sure helps to find the sleepers.   Turning the screw an 1/8 of a turn to find the "sweet spot" is more precise than a half a turn to who knows where.  But then we are back to the basic idea of where should the jack be aligned?   I think that could the basic question.  We have all been taught a certain alignment is the "correct" position.  But because of this thread there are opinions as to where the jack should be positioned.  That is good.  </DIV> <DIV><BR class=khtml-block-placeholder></DIV> <DIV>On a side note I had two actions in the shop yesterday that needed the jacks aligned.  I tried many of the methods discussed in the last few days, but for fine tuning it came back to a method based on what Bill Garlick showed Michael Wathen.   Again, that is just me. </DIV> <DIV><BR class=khtml-block-placeholder></DIV> <DIV>Respectfully,</DIV> <DIV>Tim Coates  </DIV> <DIV><BR class=khtml-block-placeholder></DIV> <DIV><BR class=khtml-block-placeholder> <DIV> <DIV> <DIV>On Aug 8, 2007, at 7:16 PM, Fred Sturm wrote:</DIV><BR class=Apple-interchange-newline> <BLOCKQUOTE type="cite"><FONT face=Verdana>Hi Tim,<BR>    Just to make myself clear, I have the utmost respect for Michael Wathen and for Bill Garlick. And for you, for that matter. Doesn’t mean we can’t state opposing opinions. I don’t think there is anyone out there deciding “who wins the game.” As I look at it, we each present our own perspective, and we each have the opportunity to learn from others. Maybe some day we’ll all agree on everything, but I doubt I’ll live that long (or even long enough for us all to agree on any one thing). Meanwhile, disagreement doesn’t have to mean all out war <G>. <BR>    <BR>Regards,<BR>Fred Sturm<BR>University of New Mexico <BR><BR><BR>On 8/7/07 9:48 PM, "Tim Coates" <<A href="mailto:tcoates1@sio.midco.net">tcoates1@sio.midco.net</A>> wrote:<BR><BR></FONT> <BLOCKQUOTE type="cite"><FONT face=Verdana>Fred,<BR><BR>I think if you re-read Michael Wathen's comments he attributes this method to "Garlick".  For those who are too young to remember, that would be Bill Garlick.    A person who used to be a very valuable member of the PTG.   <BR><BR>For me, you are wrong about the rapid flick motion.  But you can do that if you want.  You know what works best for you.  It's nice to have a good exchange of ideas without one person judging and insisting they have the only correct answer.  <BR><BR>Tim Coates<BR><BR><BR>On Aug 7, 2007, at 7:13 PM, Fred Sturm wrote:<BR><BR></FONT> <BLOCKQUOTE type="cite"><FONT face=Verdana>    I do like Michael Wathen’s method if it’s used for finding cheating jacks. Very convenient not to have to hold your finger or hand on each hammer. And I’ll suggest that a rapid flick motion rather than a hard press is best to find those borderline cases. Fast as you can, but not necessarily much force, will find them best.<BR></FONT></BLOCKQUOTE><FONT face=Verdana><BR><BR></FONT></BLOCKQUOTE><FONT face=Verdana><BR></FONT></BLOCKQUOTE></DIV><BR></DIV></DIV></BLOCKQUOTE></BLOCKQUOTE></BODY></HTML>