<html xmlns:v="urn:schemas-microsoft-com:vml" xmlns:o="urn:schemas-microsoft-com:office:office" xmlns:w="urn:schemas-microsoft-com:office:word" xmlns:st1="urn:schemas-microsoft-com:office:smarttags" xmlns="http://www.w3.org/TR/REC-html40"> <head> <meta http-equiv=Content-Type content="text/html; charset=us-ascii"> <meta name=Generator content="Microsoft Word 11 (filtered medium)"> <o:SmartTagType namespaceuri="urn:schemas-microsoft-com:office:smarttags" name="PersonName"/>  <style>  </style> </head> <body lang=EN-US link=blue vlink=purple> <div class=Section1> Paul,<o:p></o:p> <o:p> </o:p> (Very LONG solution, but good…)<o:p></o:p> <o:p> </o:p> The 1098 modification we did here at BYU solved the typical problems you mention; Restring with stainless wire, grind down (remove) the “bump”, behind the pressure bar (that’s the main change S&S made to newer models), change the angle at the pressure bar slightly (too steep) and if you have an extra hour, remove the cantilever bass and replace with a better bridge design allowing for more backscale.<o:p></o:p> <o:p> </o:p> I know, that’s not what you wanted, but it made this 1098 very good to tune and eliminated those funky sounds you mentioned. Even part of this list will help. <o:p></o:p> <o:p> </o:p> Jim Busby BYU<o:p></o:p> <o:p> </o:p> <o:p> </o:p> <div> <div class=MsoNormal align=center style='text-align:center'> <hr size=2 width="100%" align=center tabindex=-1> </div> From: caut-bounces@ptg.org [mailto:caut-bounces@ptg.org] On Behalf Of Paul T Williams Sent: Thursday, August 16, 2007 9:56 AM To: <st1:PersonName w:st="on">College and University Technicians</st1:PersonName> Subject: Re: [CAUT] Steinway Upright tuning<o:p></o:p> </div> <o:p> </o:p> Don, Would this "springy pin" be one possibility why there are so many false beats in nearly every one I've ever tuned?  We have 8 of them here at UNL and they are 1098's from the 60's. The mid sections are all fairly beatless, but the killer octave all the way to the top on every one is wicked. Or could it be a combo of springy pins, high friction, high coils etc causing the FB's? Are there other tricks to try?  I like the idea of tuning sharp and then pull down to set pitch.  I think I'll try that right now. Thanks Paul <o:p></o:p> <table class=MsoNormalTable border=0 cellpadding=0 width="100%" style='width:100.0%'> <tr> <td width="40%" valign=top style='width:40.0%;padding:.75pt .75pt .75pt .75pt'> "Don Mannino" <DMannino@kawaius.com> Sent by: caut-bounces@ptg.org <o:p></o:p> 08/16/2007 10:15 AM <o:p></o:p> <table class=MsoNormalTable border=1 cellpadding=0> <tr> <td valign=top bgcolor=white style='background:white;padding:.75pt .75pt .75pt .75pt'> Please respond to <st1:PersonName w:st="on">College and University Technicians</st1:PersonName> <caut@ptg.org><o:p></o:p> </td> </tr> </table> <o:p></o:p> </td> <td width="59%" valign=top style='width:59.0%;padding:.75pt .75pt .75pt .75pt'> <table class=MsoNormalTable border=0 cellpadding=0 width="100%" style='width:100.0%'> <tr> <td valign=top style='padding:.75pt .75pt .75pt .75pt'> To<o:p></o:p> </td> <td valign=top style='padding:.75pt .75pt .75pt .75pt'> "<st1:PersonName w:st="on">College and University Technicians</st1:PersonName>" <caut@ptg.org> <o:p></o:p> </td> </tr> <tr> <td valign=top style='padding:.75pt .75pt .75pt .75pt'> cc<o:p></o:p> </td> <td valign=top style='padding:.75pt .75pt .75pt .75pt'> <o:p> </o:p> </td> </tr> <tr> <td valign=top style='padding:.75pt .75pt .75pt .75pt'> Subject<o:p></o:p> </td> <td valign=top style='padding:.75pt .75pt .75pt .75pt'> Re: [CAUT] Steinway Upright tuning<o:p></o:p> </td> </tr> </table> <o:p> </o:p> <table class=MsoNormalTable border=0 cellpadding=0> <tr> <td valign=top style='padding:.75pt .75pt .75pt .75pt'> <o:p> </o:p> </td> <td valign=top style='padding:.75pt .75pt .75pt .75pt'> <o:p> </o:p> </td> </tr> </table> <o:p></o:p> </td> </tr> </table> <tt>Joe,</tt> <tt>I'll offer a different approach from some of the others.  I used to tune</tt> <tt>a few of these, and once I sort of got a handle on the tuning technique,</tt> <tt>they didn't bother me much after that.</tt> <tt>The root problems behind the difficulty are high string friction and</tt> <tt>high string coils (re: long tuning pins), creating a flexible pin that</tt> <tt>is constantly sprung down.  In addition, the amount of pin set into the</tt> <tt>block may not be as much as we are used to, changing the feel of the pin</tt> <tt>when turning it.  Keep in mind that in this kind of configuration the</tt> <tt>tuning pin itself is a spring, and that the 'spring' is loaded downward</tt> <tt>all the time by string tension.</tt> <tt>My technique was to tune it up above pitch normally, then settle the pin</tt> <tt>into a stable spot in the block like usual, but with the pitch still</tt> <tt>somewhat sharp.  How much sharp you have to find by experiment - not</tt> <tt>necessarily a lot, but it depends on the string friction in that</tt> <tt>particular piano.</tt> <tt>Then with the tuning lever close to 12:00 I would only spring the pin</tt> <tt>downwards a little - no turning motion at all for this fine tuning.</tt> <tt>Don't bend the pin with steady pressure, but nudge the top of the tuning</tt> <tt>lever straight towards you to bounce the pin without turning it.  If you</tt> <tt>can't get the pitch down enough by springing only, go back and use your</tt> <tt>turning motion to settle the pin closer to final pitch, then 'spring'</tt> <tt>down for fine tuning.  If springing sends the pitch too flat, then</tt> <tt>re-settle the pin slightly more sharp before springing.</tt> <tt>I found these pianos to be exceptionally stable, and once I got</tt> <tt>comfortable with this tuning method, I had no complaints with them.</tt> <tt>I have been told that recent revisions in these models have made them</tt> <tt>much less springy with less friction as well.  I haven't tuned any new</tt> <tt>ones, though.</tt> <tt>Don Mannino</tt> <tt>> -----Original Message-----</tt> <tt>> From: caut-bounces@ptg.org [mailto:caut-bounces@ptg.org] On </tt> <tt>> Behalf Of Joe Wiencek</tt> <tt>> Sent: Wednesday, August 15, 2007 8:50 PM</tt> <tt>> To: caut@ptg.org</tt> <tt>> Subject: [CAUT] Steinway Upright tuning</tt> <tt>> </tt> <tt>> List,</tt> <tt>> I'm a recent RPT and caut.   Today I was forced to take a break while </tt> <tt>> tuning a Steinway Model 45 piano due to the squirminess of </tt> <tt>> the pitch.  </tt> <tt>> Can anyone suggest a plan of attack on these particular (or </tt> <tt>> any Steinway upright) that makes for an efficient tuning session?</tt> <tt>> Thanks,</tt> <tt>> Joe</tt> <tt>> </tt> <tt>> Joe Wiencek</tt> <tt>> jwpiano@earthlink.net</tt> <tt>> </tt> <tt>> tel: 551 358 4006</tt> <tt>> </tt> <o:p></o:p> </div> </body> </html>