<HTML><BODY style="word-wrap: break-word; -khtml-nbsp-mode: space; -khtml-line-break: after-white-space; "><BR><DIV><DIV>On Aug 16, 2007, at 11:15 AM, Don Mannino wrote:</DIV><BR class="Apple-interchange-newline"><BLOCKQUOTE type="cite"><P style="margin: 0.0px 0.0px 0.0px 0.0px"><FONT face="Helvetica" size="3" style="font: 12.0px Helvetica">Joe,</FONT></P> <P style="margin: 0.0px 0.0px 0.0px 0.0px; font: 12.0px Helvetica; min-height: 14.0px"><BR></P> <P style="margin: 0.0px 0.0px 0.0px 0.0px"><FONT face="Helvetica" size="3" style="font: 12.0px Helvetica">I'll offer a different approach from some of the others.<SPAN class="Apple-converted-space"> </SPAN>I used to tune</FONT></P> <P style="margin: 0.0px 0.0px 0.0px 0.0px"><FONT face="Helvetica" size="3" style="font: 12.0px Helvetica">a few of these, and once I sort of got a handle on the tuning technique,</FONT></P> <P style="margin: 0.0px 0.0px 0.0px 0.0px"><FONT face="Helvetica" size="3" style="font: 12.0px Helvetica">they didn't bother me much after that.</FONT></P> <P style="margin: 0.0px 0.0px 0.0px 0.0px; font: 12.0px Helvetica; min-height: 14.0px"><BR></P> <P style="margin: 0.0px 0.0px 0.0px 0.0px"><FONT face="Helvetica" size="3" style="font: 12.0px Helvetica">I found these pianos to be exceptionally stable, and once I got</FONT></P> <P style="margin: 0.0px 0.0px 0.0px 0.0px"><FONT face="Helvetica" size="3" style="font: 12.0px Helvetica">comfortable with this tuning method, I had no complaints with them.</FONT></P> <P style="margin: 0.0px 0.0px 0.0px 0.0px; font: 12.0px Helvetica; min-height: 14.0px"><BR></P> <P style="margin: 0.0px 0.0px 0.0px 0.0px"><FONT face="Helvetica" size="3" style="font: 12.0px Helvetica">I have been told that recent revisions in these models have made them</FONT></P> <P style="margin: 0.0px 0.0px 0.0px 0.0px"><FONT face="Helvetica" size="3" style="font: 12.0px Helvetica">much less springy with less friction as well.<SPAN class="Apple-converted-space"> </SPAN>I haven't tuned any new</FONT></P> <P style="margin: 0.0px 0.0px 0.0px 0.0px"><FONT face="Helvetica" size="3" style="font: 12.0px Helvetica">ones, though.</FONT></P> <P style="margin: 0.0px 0.0px 0.0px 0.0px; font: 12.0px Helvetica; min-height: 14.0px"><BR></P> <P style="margin: 0.0px 0.0px 0.0px 0.0px"><FONT face="Helvetica" size="3" style="font: 12.0px Helvetica">Don Mannino</FONT></P> </BLOCKQUOTE></DIV><BR><DIV>Ditto. I don't know about all that analysis stuff ya'll are spending time writing, though. You just tune the things and they stay there. Don't expect them to sound like Yamahas or Kawais because they are not. They are what they are. People who like them, love them. I really don't share or understand the disdain I hear from so many techs about them.</DIV><DIV><BR class="khtml-block-placeholder"></DIV><DIV>I sort of cut my teeth tuning 1098s (I've always called them 45s, because that is what is stamped on the pinblock) as I was developing my tuning skills as a student in college. And now I have quite a few private customers with Steinway verticals, and they might just be my most loyal customers. Except for when they were new, and the pins were so freaking tight you thought you were going to turn the piano over before the pin moved in the block, I really have never thought of the tuning technique as being that much different than any other piano. Maybe it's because nobody told me when I was learning that they were no fun to tune, so I didn't know any better. Perhaps Yamahas and Kawais being so easy to tune in the earlier years spoils a young tuner. But, IMO, if you'll develop technique for tuning 45s, your technique for any other piano will be superior. </DIV><DIV><BR class="khtml-block-placeholder"></DIV><DIV>1098s all feel similar, but like anything else, each one has its own quirks. So, there is no one size fits all. The bass feels different from the tenor which feels different from the treble. But what I think is the fastest way to develop a feel for tuning a 1098 is to do a fast one pass tuning, and then go back over and clean it up after you've gotten a feel for the pins. I do normally hold the hammer somewhere around 12:00, but will move it around depending on what seems to be giving the best results. One thing I DO do is to give the hammer a push and pull back and forth AFTER I've got the pin where I want it to go to be sure the flex is out of the pin, but that is my standard technique (maybe it came from learning on 1098s?) You just have to get a feel for that piano, and there is no way to really describe it. Don't get too wrapped up with letting the false beats bother you. I know they don't sound so hot while you're tuning, but once you close the cabinet, they really don't sound half bad.</DIV><DIV><BR class="khtml-block-placeholder"></DIV><DIV><DIV>On Aug 16, 2007, at 2:05 PM, Douglas Wood wrote:</DIV><BLOCKQUOTE type="cite"><DIV style="margin-top: 0px; margin-right: 0px; margin-bottom: 0px; margin-left: 0px; ">The 5th and 6th octave sound that is so "funky" in tuning work actually contributes to the musicality of the instrument, if one is interested primarily in tone color range.</DIV></BLOCKQUOTE></DIV><DIV><BR class="khtml-block-placeholder"></DIV><DIV>I think I agree with that very much.</DIV><DIV><BR class="khtml-block-placeholder"></DIV><DIV>I agree with Don and Doug, once you get a feel for how to tune them, I find them to be exceptionally stable. We keep one in my shop as a "floater" for impromptu performances, and it holds tune really, really well. Dampp-Chaser systems WILL improve the stability in unstable settings, but if you want the full system, you have to install the backside system. I did one in a real roller coaster environment, and that piano became rock solid.</DIV><DIV><BR class="khtml-block-placeholder"></DIV><DIV><DIV>On Aug 16, 2007, at 6:36 AM, Jon Page wrote:</DIV><BLOCKQUOTE type="cite"><DIV style="margin-top: 0px; margin-right: 0px; margin-bottom: 0px; margin-left: 0px; ">The life is too short to waste time for the sake of a brand name. </DIV></BLOCKQUOTE></DIV><DIV><BR class="khtml-block-placeholder"></DIV><DIV>Except they last so long. The 5 we have here at SC are from 1957-1962 - the oldest verticals in the inventory by over 10 years. I would rather have 40 more just like them than the 25 Baldwin Hamiltons and 15 Baldwin 6000s we have, including the 30 newer ones (1995). They are just workhorses I haven't seen equal to in that regard, regardless of who's name is on the fallboard.</DIV><DIV><BR class="khtml-block-placeholder"></DIV><DIV>Granted, I haven't seen it all.</DIV><DIV>Jeff</DIV><DIV><BR class="khtml-block-placeholder"></DIV><DIV><SPAN class="Apple-style-span" style="border-collapse: separate; border-spacing: 0px 0px; color: rgb(0, 0, 0); font-family: Helvetica; font-size: 12px; font-style: normal; font-variant: normal; font-weight: normal; letter-spacing: normal; line-height: normal; text-align: auto; -khtml-text-decorations-in-effect: none; text-indent: 0px; -apple-text-size-adjust: auto; text-transform: none; orphans: 2; white-space: normal; widows: 2; word-spacing: 0px; "><DIV>Jeff Tanner, RPT</DIV><DIV>University of South Carolina</DIV><DIV><BR class="khtml-block-placeholder"></DIV><BR class="Apple-interchange-newline"></SPAN> </DIV><BR></BODY></HTML>