<HTML><BODY style="word-wrap: break-word; -khtml-nbsp-mode: space; -khtml-line-break: after-white-space; "><BR><DIV><DIV>On Oct 20, 2007, at 5:41 AM, Richard Brekne wrote:</DIV><BR class="Apple-interchange-newline"><BLOCKQUOTE type="cite"><P style="margin: 0.0px 0.0px 0.0px 0.0px"><FONT face="Helvetica" size="3" style="font: 12.0px Helvetica">An interesting post from Richard<SPAN class="Apple-converted-space"> </SPAN>West which echos many a familiar theme.<SPAN class="Apple-converted-space"> </SPAN></FONT></P> <P style="margin: 0.0px 0.0px 0.0px 0.0px"><FONT face="Helvetica" size="3" style="font: 12.0px Helvetica">I keep going back to a point I find central and at the very core of the whole issue.<SPAN class="Apple-converted-space"> </SPAN>There is no real uniform formal education for pianotechs in the States, and many other places.<SPAN class="Apple-converted-space"> </SPAN>Certainly nothing that is uniform despite a few piano technology schools around the country. And there is absolutely no form of accountability required of anyone to in some fashion or another demonstrate they have even the slightest idea of what they are doing in order to start working as a <<paid piano tech>>.</FONT></P> <P style="margin: 0.0px 0.0px 0.0px 0.0px; font: 12.0px Helvetica; min-height: 14.0px"><BR></P> <P style="margin: 0.0px 0.0px 0.0px 0.0px"><FONT face="Helvetica" size="3" style="font: 12.0px Helvetica">I look back at my own career and think time and time again... if I'd only had even a reasonably decent starting point where would I be now.</FONT></P></BLOCKQUOTE><DIV><BR class="khtml-block-placeholder"></DIV><DIV>Hi Ric,</DIV><DIV>I have to ask, if there had been only one path to this profession, and it wasn't the one you took, would you have taken it? (and you can't say, "knowing what I know now" because you couldn't have)</DIV><DIV><BR class="khtml-block-placeholder"></DIV><DIV>When I was looking into this craft at the age of 17, there was no internet. There were few piano tuners in my area and they didn't want you to find out how to learn the business. (The one who serviced my mom's piano was quite irritated by my pursuit.) And there was zero PTG presence. I had no idea schools like North Bennett Street even existed. And even though I assumed they probably did, I didn't have a way to find out where they were or how to contact them. Many miracles have occurred in my life to get me where I am today, and the path I took into this work was one of them. If there had been only the trade school path, or if you had to go to a certain university in some state 1000 miles away, who knows what I would be doing today. It probably wouldn't have been piano work, though, because when I first pursued it, I wasn't looking at it as a career. I was just looking for a way to make extra money through college. I had no idea what I was going to do, but piano work has always been the "fall back".</DIV><BR><BLOCKQUOTE type="cite"><P style="margin: 0.0px 0.0px 0.0px 0.0px"><FONT face="Helvetica" size="3" style="font: 12.0px Helvetica"><SPAN class="Apple-converted-space"> </SPAN>At the age of 55 I am a fair ways down the road... but I did nigh on 20 years before I walked through that RPT door (or something similar) and found out how much more there was to learn.<SPAN class="Apple-converted-space"> </SPAN>That very door is the one we should be walking through after 3 years of journeyman training.<SPAN class="Apple-converted-space"> </SPAN>That was what was at the core of the old German system which actually forbid by law the journeyman to have his/her own workshop.<SPAN class="Apple-converted-space"> </SPAN>You had to reach for and attain Meister level.<SPAN class="Apple-converted-space"> </SPAN>And you could not even start on that until you had at least 5 years experience after Journeyman certification was achieved. Something on these lines at least.</FONT></P></BLOCKQUOTE><DIV><BR class="khtml-block-placeholder"></DIV><DIV><BR class="khtml-block-placeholder"></DIV><DIV>You have identified the source of the issue at heart: In the US, there is no government regulation of the piano service profession. Without government regulation, no single independent organization or entity can have a monopolistic control on curriculum, method or certification of persons who want to engage in the practice of piano service as an occupation or trade. We can have our own product that we recommend, but we cannot assert any kind of monopolistic control without alerting the anti trust police.</DIV><DIV><BR class="khtml-block-placeholder"></DIV><DIV>And, while it seems wonderfully idealistic, I'm not sure I agree with the old German requirement myself, especially these days. Many a piano tuner/technician in the US has enjoyed quite a successful career without the need for that level of training. If you want to go designing and building pianos, then I can understand the personal quest for such knowledge. But that is hardly something the US government sees as necessary to regulate, and I am glad it doesn't.</DIV><BR><BLOCKQUOTE type="cite"> <P style="margin: 0.0px 0.0px 0.0px 0.0px; font: 12.0px Helvetica; min-height: 14.0px"><BR></P> <P style="margin: 0.0px 0.0px 0.0px 0.0px"><FONT face="Helvetica" size="3" style="font: 12.0px Helvetica">Ok... so its kind of impossible to do exactly the same thing in the US.<SPAN class="Apple-converted-space"> </SPAN>But what should the PTG do ?<SPAN class="Apple-converted-space"> </SPAN>Instead of trying to put together essentially yet another school with its own ideas of what a piano tech should do... perhaps it should take initiative to start forming a uniform curriculum for piano technology for the schools that already do exist, and promote the establishment of a few more university levels that offer it.</FONT></P></BLOCKQUOTE><DIV><BR class="khtml-block-placeholder"></DIV><DIV>You touch on another issue that no one has brought up. The PTG is not an accredited educational institution. As such, any PTG sponsored certification or other credential has no real credibility other than the endorsement of an association of business people in the same industry who have assembled a set of ideals they see as essential for someone else to enter the profession as their competitor.</DIV><DIV><BR class="khtml-block-placeholder"></DIV><DIV>Our weakness is that there is no impartial independent entity overseeing and accrediting our process. As idealistic as we would like to believe we are, the reality of it is that we can't be seen as an impartial jury.</DIV><BR><BLOCKQUOTE type="cite"><P style="margin: 0.0px 0.0px 0.0px 0.0px"><FONT face="Helvetica" size="3" style="font: 12.0px Helvetica"><SPAN class="Apple-converted-space"> </SPAN>Establishing degree requirements for what a CAUT head technician should be able to do or not might be a bit easier that way.<SPAN class="Apple-converted-space"> </SPAN>RPT and Masters memberships requirements could be simply a matter of completing the required courses at universities offering them.</FONT></P> <P style="margin: 0.0px 0.0px 0.0px 0.0px; font: 12.0px Helvetica; min-height: 14.0px"><BR></P> <P style="margin: 0.0px 0.0px 0.0px 0.0px"><FONT face="Helvetica" size="3" style="font: 12.0px Helvetica">What should a CAUT head tech be able to do ?<SPAN class="Apple-converted-space"> </SPAN>Well, he/she<SPAN class="Apple-converted-space"> </SPAN>should have a fair amount of physics and math under the belt... relevant to piano design issues. A thorough knowledge of general woodworking skills, a fair degree of administration skills, enough rebuilding skills to either do a complete rebuild even tho such jobs may be contracted out, and a fair amount of pedagogic skills in as much as furthering the education of fresh journeymen is a necessity in any large institution. At least an associates degree in music with piano as the central instrument should also be in the picture. </FONT></P></BLOCKQUOTE><DIV><BR class="khtml-block-placeholder"></DIV><DIV>Why? This is by far the most humorous suggestion I see from time to time. What in a music degree curriculum does anyone see that prepares anyone for piano maintenance work? or inventory management? Certainly there is no harm in someone having a music degree, but it is absolutely laughable to suggest that the curriculum of a music degree prepares anyone for much of anything except music performance or the teaching profession. Where do the physics and woodworking skills come from in that degree program? Some advanced math is generally required, but my recollection was that it didn't exceed beyond college algebra or pre-calculus. Administration skills? from a music degree? They don't even teach the logistics of presenting a concert let alone administration skills!</DIV><DIV><BR class="khtml-block-placeholder"></DIV><DIV>Yes, recognizing good piano tone and understanding how to achieve it through playing are things that a piano degree might help with. But it does not take a music degree in piano to learn these things. I'd even assert that it is something that some people can just plain be born with.</DIV><DIV><BR class="khtml-block-placeholder"></DIV><BR><BLOCKQUOTE type="cite"><P style="margin: 0.0px 0.0px 0.0px 0.0px"><FONT face="Helvetica" size="3" style="font: 12.0px Helvetica"><SPAN class="Apple-converted-space"> </SPAN>A CAUT head technician is in the end responsible for all these things, and more...even tho some of these things may be delegated or contracted to others.<SPAN class="Apple-converted-space"> </SPAN></FONT></P> <P style="margin: 0.0px 0.0px 0.0px 0.0px"><FONT face="Helvetica" size="3" style="font: 12.0px Helvetica">Of course such a person requires several years of experience after a base education to get there. My point is that that journey is all to all to often made wayyyy to long simply because there is no requirement and nearly in practice no existance of a reasonble starting point from which to begin that journey.</FONT></P></BLOCKQUOTE><BLOCKQUOTE type="cite"><P style="margin: 0.0px 0.0px 0.0px 0.0px; font: 12.0px Helvetica; min-height: 14.0px"><BR></P></BLOCKQUOTE><DIV><BR class="khtml-block-placeholder"></DIV><DIV>We enter this profession from too many different corners of life to establish one perfect way of getting into the business. Our craft is treated as a hobby here. That is the best way to accommodate the different types of people and learning styles that come into the business. I absolutely respect what is done at the schools like North Bennett St. But we just can't all drop our lives and move up north for a year.</DIV><BR><BLOCKQUOTE type="cite"><P style="margin: 0.0px 0.0px 0.0px 0.0px; font: 12.0px Helvetica; min-height: 14.0px"></P> <P style="margin: 0.0px 0.0px 0.0px 0.0px"><FONT face="Helvetica" size="3" style="font: 12.0px Helvetica">The PTG does an admirable job of making the best out of a loosing proposition IMV.<SPAN class="Apple-converted-space"> </SPAN>The dedication to improving ones skills and helping others relies in the end so much on idealistic principles that the problems we face in reaching both techs, administrations, pianists, and the general public is the most predictable of results possible... and at some point we will IMHO reach a wall we will not get through.</FONT></P></BLOCKQUOTE><DIV><BR class="khtml-block-placeholder"></DIV>I agree with this, I think? I'm not quite certain I understand it clearly though.</DIV><DIV><BR><BLOCKQUOTE type="cite"> <P style="margin: 0.0px 0.0px 0.0px 0.0px; font: 12.0px Helvetica; min-height: 14.0px"><BR></P> <P style="margin: 0.0px 0.0px 0.0px 0.0px"><FONT face="Helvetica" size="3" style="font: 12.0px Helvetica">Only when those that hire and use us truly have a sense of what our work is about and how much learning, skill, and experience it takes to get good at it will we break through that wall.<SPAN class="Apple-converted-space"> </SPAN>I fear we simply will not much farther in that effort by staying on our present course.</FONT></P></BLOCKQUOTE><DIV><BR class="khtml-block-placeholder"></DIV><DIV>I'm not sure it is a wall that can be broken through. We work with a faculty of people who were all educated via an established system of accredited institutions. Within those individual institutions, each different department and school has checks and balances on each other under the umbrella of the overall institutional administration. To them, it is simply "the way it is done." We don't have access to that "way". It is impossible in the US to establish a similar training path for piano technicians. It would be far too uneconomical to implement undergraduate programs in piano technology all over the country, and it just doesn't make sense. It simply isn't necessary.</DIV><DIV><BR class="khtml-block-placeholder"></DIV><DIV>In that regard, our career training path is simply different from that of the other faculty members of our institutions. They cannot relate to it. And though many among us may well have taken the educational path they share, the reality is that that path will have been taken in something unrelated to piano maintenance. That is our brick wall.</DIV><DIV><BR class="khtml-block-placeholder"></DIV><DIV>And that is ok. Not every profession requires the collegiate path to attain success (in fact, I think we way over sell the college education to too many people who don't need it). Watch the movie, "The Pursuit of Happiness" (based on a true story of a man's quest to become a stock broker). Not everybody gets there the same way. And it's ok.</DIV><DIV><BR class="khtml-block-placeholder"></DIV><DIV>My thoughts,</DIV><DIV>Jeff</DIV><BR><BLOCKQUOTE type="cite"> <P style="margin: 0.0px 0.0px 0.0px 0.0px; font: 12.0px Helvetica; min-height: 14.0px"><BR></P> <P style="margin: 0.0px 0.0px 0.0px 0.0px"><FONT face="Helvetica" size="3" style="font: 12.0px Helvetica">Cheers</FONT></P> <P style="margin: 0.0px 0.0px 0.0px 0.0px"><FONT face="Helvetica" size="3" style="font: 12.0px Helvetica">RicB</FONT></P> <P style="margin: 0.0px 0.0px 0.0px 0.0px; font: 12.0px Helvetica; min-height: 14.0px"><BR></P> </BLOCKQUOTE></DIV><BR><DIV> <SPAN class="Apple-style-span" style="border-collapse: separate; border-spacing: 0px 0px; color: rgb(0, 0, 0); font-family: Helvetica; font-size: 12px; font-style: normal; font-variant: normal; font-weight: normal; letter-spacing: normal; line-height: normal; text-align: auto; -khtml-text-decorations-in-effect: none; text-indent: 0px; -apple-text-size-adjust: auto; text-transform: none; orphans: 2; white-space: normal; widows: 2; word-spacing: 0px; "><DIV>Jeff Tanner, RPT</DIV><DIV>University of South Carolina</DIV><DIV><BR class="khtml-block-placeholder"></DIV><BR class="Apple-interchange-newline"></SPAN> </DIV><BR></BODY></HTML>