<!DOCTYPE HTML PUBLIC "-//W3C//DTD HTML 4.0 Transitional//EN"> <HTML><HEAD><TITLE>Re: [CAUT] Uniform Formal Education (Jeff Tanner)</TITLE> <META http-equiv=Content-Type content="text/html; charset=iso-8859-1"> <STYLE></STYLE> <META content="MSHTML 6.00.6000.16544" name=GENERATOR></HEAD> <BODY id=role_body style="FONT-SIZE: 10pt; COLOR: #000000; FONT-FAMILY: Arial" bottomMargin=7 bgColor=#ffffff leftMargin=7 topMargin=7 rightMargin=7> <DIV><STRONG><FONT size=3>Did you find the FAC numbers changed with the season?</FONT></STRONG></DIV> <DIV>John M. Ross<BR>Windsor, Nova Scotia, Canada<BR><A href="mailto:jrpiano@win.eastlink.ca">jrpiano@win.eastlink.ca</A></DIV> <BLOCKQUOTE dir=ltr style="PADDING-RIGHT: 0px; PADDING-LEFT: 5px; MARGIN-LEFT: 5px; BORDER-LEFT: #000000 2px solid; MARGIN-RIGHT: 0px"> <DIV style="FONT: 10pt arial">----- Original Message ----- </DIV> <DIV style="BACKGROUND: #e4e4e4; FONT: 10pt arial; font-color: black"><B>From:</B> <A title=ilvey@sbcglobal.net href="mailto:ilvey@sbcglobal.net">David Ilvedson</A> </DIV> <DIV style="FONT: 10pt arial"><B>To:</B> <A title=caut@ptg.org href="mailto:caut@ptg.org">caut@ptg.org</A> </DIV> <DIV style="FONT: 10pt arial"><B>Sent:</B> Tuesday, October 23, 2007 11:48 PM</DIV> <DIV style="FONT: 10pt arial"><B>Subject:</B> Re: [CAUT] Uniform Formal Education (Jeff Tanner)</DIV> <DIV><BR></DIV> <DIV align=left><FONT style="FONT: 10pt ARIAL, SAN-SERIF; COLOR: black">I don't store FAC numbers in my SAT either, I write them down in the piano...;-]  <BR><BR>David Ilvedson, RPT<BR>Pacifica, CA 94044<BR><BR> <DIV style="PADDING-RIGHT: 5px; PADDING-LEFT: 5px; PADDING-BOTTOM: 5px; BORDER-LEFT: #000000 3px solid; PADDING-TOP: 5px"> <HR> Original message<BR>From: "John Ross" <JRPIANO@WIN.EASTLINK.CA> </JRPIANO@WIN.EASTLINK.CA><BR>To: "College and University Technicians" <CAUT@PTG.ORG> </CAUT@PTG.ORG><BR>Received: 10/23/2007 3:06:52 PM<BR>Subject: Re: [CAUT] Uniform Formal Education (Jeff Tanner)<BR><BR> <DIV align=left><STRONG><FONT size=3>I tune using an ETD, have done since '75.</FONT></STRONG></DIV> <DIV><STRONG><FONT size=3></FONT></STRONG> </DIV> <DIV><STRONG><FONT size=3>I find it interesting the point being made, that is the master tuning done at a previous time, still a master tuning.</FONT></STRONG></DIV> <DIV><STRONG><FONT size=3></FONT></STRONG> </DIV> <DIV><STRONG><FONT size=3>When I used the SAT, I noticed that the FAC numbers would change, for a specific piano, depending on the season. So I never used a stored tuning, and always got new FAC numbers.</FONT></STRONG></DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV><STRONG><FONT size=3>I have a spare ETD, and likewise, I always use the recalculate, when going back to a piano I tuned previously.</FONT></STRONG></DIV> <DIV><STRONG><FONT size=3></FONT></STRONG> </DIV> <DIV><STRONG><FONT size=3>So has any determination been done, as to whether the master tuning changes, with changes in humidity?</FONT></STRONG></DIV> <DIV>John M. Ross<BR>Windsor, Nova Scotia, Canada<BR><A href="mailto:jrpiano@win.eastlink.ca">jrpiano@win.eastlink.ca</A></DIV> <BLOCKQUOTE dir=ltr style="PADDING-RIGHT: 0px; PADDING-LEFT: 5px; MARGIN-LEFT: 5px; BORDER-LEFT: #000000 2px solid; MARGIN-RIGHT: 0px"> <DIV style="FONT: 10pt arial">----- Original Message ----- </DIV> <DIV style="BACKGROUND: #e4e4e4; FONT: 10pt arial; font-color: black"><B>From:</B> <A title=ITUNEPIANO@aol.com href="mailto:ITUNEPIANO@aol.com">ITUNEPIANO@aol.com</A> </DIV> <DIV style="FONT: 10pt arial"><B>To:</B> <A title=caut@ptg.org href="mailto:caut@ptg.org">caut@ptg.org</A> </DIV> <DIV style="FONT: 10pt arial"><B>Sent:</B> Tuesday, October 23, 2007 5:33 PM</DIV> <DIV style="FONT: 10pt arial"><B>Subject:</B> Re: [CAUT] Uniform Formal Education (Jeff Tanner)</DIV> <DIV><BR></DIV><FONT id=role_document face=Arial color=#000000 size=2> <DIV>I can second Wim's comments  - 70% of my work is pitch raising up to 100 cents and leaving the piano in decent tune when finished.  The test doesn't cover that.  An ETD can set a better temperament than most 1st year tuners can aurally.  Many techs use an ETD to suppliment an aural tuning, and many more use an ETD to tune the entire piano.  I know many techs who do a great job with an ETD.   I spose there is an argument "what if the ETD breaks?"  Well, if I relied on an ETD to tune (which I don't), I'd carry a back up ETD with me, as I carry a back up tuning fork (ever lose a tuning fork?)....  Further, the tuning test takes an incredible amount of time to set the piano up, if a master tuning is done ....and common sense tells me that a master tuning done years ago (as was the case when I tested) would have been done when the voicing was different, harmonics were different, and was therefor no longer accurate.   Just have an applicant tune the piano..... either it sounds good, or it doesn't.  Takes a few minutes to evaluate it, and the CTE's job would be a hell of a lot easier ......nothing against all the techs who worked hard to develop the current test, but you have to admit, it's very time consuming for a CTE to administer.  </DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV><FONT lang=0 face=Arial size=2 family="SANSSERIF" ptsize="10">Bob Maret, RPT<BR>Piano Technician<BR></FONT></DIV></FONT><BR><BR><BR> <DIV><FONT style="FONT: 10pt ARIAL, SAN-SERIF; COLOR: black"> <HR style="MARGIN-TOP: 10px"> See what's new at <A title=http://www.aol.com?NCID=AOLCMP00300000001170 href="http://www.aol.com/?NCID=AOLCMP00300000001170" target=_blank>AOL.com</A> and <A title=http://www.aol.com/mksplash.adp?NCID=AOLCMP00300000001169 href="http://www.aol.com/mksplash.adp?NCID=AOLCMP00300000001169" target=_blank>Make AOL Your Homepage</A>.</FONT> </DIV></BLOCKQUOTE></DIV></FONT></DIV></BLOCKQUOTE></BODY></HTML>