<HTML><BODY style="word-wrap: break-word; -khtml-nbsp-mode: space; -khtml-line-break: after-white-space; "><BR><DIV><DIV>On Oct 31, 2007, at 9:10 PM, Willem Blees wrote:</DIV><BR class="Apple-interchange-newline"><BLOCKQUOTE type="cite"><DIV id="AOLMsgPart_2_ce5a4b50-8bc7-4c76-8e9b-2c2183fe6b83"> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>We are machine technicians. What we actually do has little to do with music, whether we want to admit it or not. Music can be created when we are finished, but it is not necessary to know much about music to do high level piano work. It seems that persons with high levels of musicianship and musical training tend to pursue our craft, and also tend to be the ones who pursue CAUT work. But I believe it is possible to do very high level work in our field without much musical knowledge.</DIV> <DIV><BR class="khtml-block-placeholder"></DIV> <DIV>Jeff</DIV> <BR> <BR> <DIV><SPAN class="Apple-style-span" style="WORD-SPACING: 0px; FONT: 12px Helvetica; TEXT-TRANSFORM: none; COLOR: rgb(0,0,0); TEXT-INDENT: 0px; WHITE-SPACE: normal; LETTER-SPACING: normal; BORDER-COLLAPSE: separate; border-spacing: 0px 0px; -khtml-text-decorations-in-effect: none; -apple-text-size-adjust: auto; orphans: 2; widows: 2"> <DIV>Jeff Tanner, RPT</DIV> <DIV>University of South Carolina</DIV> <DIV><BR class="khtml-block-placeholder"></DIV> Jeff<BR> <BR> If you read my post carefully, I didn't say that a degree in music is necessarily important. (although piano technicians should at least have a basic understanding of music.). But that is not the issue. <BR> <BR> The question is, should a CAUT have a college education instead of just a high school education, which seems to be what most of the universities are requiring? Should a college education, along with being an RPT, in addition to whatever requirements beyond the RPT qualifications the CAUT committee deems important, be a prerequisite for being a CAUT? Paul doesn't seem to think that the PTG can require that. But if we can't do that, where do we draw the line? Can we require a university to hire an RPT? Can we require the university to hire CAUT level tuners? <BR> <BR> I think that if the PTG/CAUT wants to get serious about the level of piano tuners working at universities, then lets have the requirements be something university administrators can understand. To be a CAUT, a piano tuner should have a college education, and be an RPT with CAUT credentials, which should include some sort of management training. <BR> <BR> Comments, thoughts? <BR> </SPAN><BR> Wim</DIV></DIV></BLOCKQUOTE><BR></DIV><DIV>Well, I have a degree and I don't think its necessary for what I do here. I'm doing my dead level best to be objective on this issue, and what I see just doesn't seem to indicate a need for a degree. Like Ron Nossaman explained, if having a degree really makes a difference, we should be seeing a noticeable difference in performance of our craft. What we know just doesn't seem to bear this out. We have a number of highly respected CAUTs at high profile institutions who are non-degreed. I know my share of non-degreed techs who do very respected concert work. I am proud I have a degree and wouldn't trade my "non-classroom" college experience for anything. But there are many people in this world who wasted thousands and thousands of dollars pursuing a degree because someone else thought they ought to.</DIV><DIV><BR class="khtml-block-placeholder"></DIV><DIV>What I use here is from experience I received outside of my degree/formal education experience. Although I did heavily participate (an understatement) in the music department and pursued a music degree for a period of time, I learned this work by being an assistant to the piano technician -- not by taking piano lessons or the voice lessons I did take. I took all the business classes and learned a lot about insurance, enough about economics to know it rarely works they way they think it will, and I've completely forgotten most everything about the finance class I took. But even a basic business management course isn't much more than the deconstruction and scientific explanation of common sense. </DIV><DIV><BR class="khtml-block-placeholder"></DIV><DIV>If one wants to develop an appreciation and an ear for the music of the piano (which is really what we're talking about being the crucial element here) to accompany our craft comparable to that one can achieve in an associates degree, it is not difficult to do outside the university setting. In fact, it is much less expensive and likely more rewarding to pursue private lessons, purchase recordings of music, do research on your own at the public library and attend good concerts. Perhaps the college setting is the best place to participate in good music ensembles, but there are often really good community and church performing ensemble opportunities. After all, what you really learn in college is how to find out stuff for yourself, and those are pretty much the basics of a music degree program. An old high school girlfriend taught herself how to sight sing using her elementary band method books and their old $100 piano. She became an all state vocalist and never failed an audition. I have a friend who, in his late 50s or early 60s decided to learn the cello. He purchased a $300 cello off of Ebay, started taking lessons and within a fairly short time was performing with a local community orchestra and our church orchestra (about the cello, he says you put good strings on it and it doesn't sound half bad). Folks, it doesn't take a college to get educated and develop skills and talents, but you can achieve it there, too.</DIV><DIV><BR class="khtml-block-placeholder"></DIV><DIV>Even though you seem to have the impression most universities are requiring a degree, that is the rare exception. The majority of the few position descriptions which do mention a college degree have it in the "desired" section. Reason for that is that the employee classification we are most often associated with requires nothing beyond a high school diploma, and I wouldn't doubt GED in some states. So, whether or not we have a degree will most likely make no difference with your human resources department until a more accurate classification exists for our craft. Now, when I was interviewed here, the musicians raised eyebrows at my business degree and did appreciate the fact I had some music training. But even then I understood that that is the only world they understand. The longer I have worked here, reinforcement of that understanding has been driven deeper. It goes back to what Ron and I have both called prejudice and academic pretense (his words). There is the notion of isolation from the outside world that is very much a factor as well.</DIV><DIV><BR class="khtml-block-placeholder"></DIV><DIV>Jeff</DIV><DIV><BR class="khtml-block-placeholder"></DIV><DIV><BR class="khtml-block-placeholder"></DIV><BR><BR><DIV> <SPAN class="Apple-style-span" style="border-collapse: separate; border-spacing: 0px 0px; color: rgb(0, 0, 0); font-family: Helvetica; font-size: 12px; font-style: normal; font-variant: normal; font-weight: normal; letter-spacing: normal; line-height: normal; text-align: auto; -khtml-text-decorations-in-effect: none; text-indent: 0px; -apple-text-size-adjust: auto; text-transform: none; orphans: 2; white-space: normal; widows: 2; word-spacing: 0px; "><DIV>Jeff Tanner, RPT</DIV><DIV>University of South Carolina</DIV><DIV><BR class="khtml-block-placeholder"></DIV><BR class="Apple-interchange-newline"></SPAN> </DIV><BR></BODY></HTML>