<html xmlns:v="urn:schemas-microsoft-com:vml" xmlns:o="urn:schemas-microsoft-com:office:office" xmlns:w="urn:schemas-microsoft-com:office:word" xmlns:st1="urn:schemas-microsoft-com:office:smarttags" xmlns="http://www.w3.org/TR/REC-html40"> <head> <META HTTP-EQUIV="Content-Type" CONTENT="text/html; charset=us-ascii"> <meta name=Generator content="Microsoft Word 11 (filtered medium)">  <title>Re: [CAUT] CAUT credential vs. academic program?</title> <o:SmartTagType namespaceuri="urn:schemas-microsoft-com:office:smarttags" name="PostalCode"/> <o:SmartTagType namespaceuri="urn:schemas-microsoft-com:office:smarttags" name="City"/> <o:SmartTagType namespaceuri="urn:schemas-microsoft-com:office:smarttags" name="State"/> <o:SmartTagType namespaceuri="urn:schemas-microsoft-com:office:smarttags" name="PlaceType"/> <o:SmartTagType namespaceuri="urn:schemas-microsoft-com:office:smarttags" name="PlaceName"/> <o:SmartTagType namespaceuri="urn:schemas-microsoft-com:office:smarttags" name="place"/> <o:SmartTagType namespaceuri="urn:schemas-microsoft-com:office:smarttags" name="PersonName"/>  <style>  </style> </head> <body lang=EN-US link=blue vlink=purple> <div class=Section1> Hi,<o:p></o:p> <o:p> </o:p> 2 techs. Keith Kopp and me. We kind of share all duties but Keith gets more of the administrative.<o:p></o:p> <o:p> </o:p> JIm<o:p></o:p> <o:p> </o:p> <div> <div class=MsoNormal align=center style='text-align:center'> <hr size=2 width="100%" align=center tabindex=-1> </div> From: caut-bounces@ptg.org [mailto:caut-bounces@ptg.org] On Behalf Of David Ilvedson Sent: Thursday, November 01, 2007 5:28 PM To: caut@ptg.org Subject: Re: [CAUT] CAUT credential vs. academic program?<o:p></o:p> </div> <o:p> </o:p> Your list is certainly beyond an RPT certificate, I'll give you that...although it seems a little inflated...<o:p></o:p> Of your list #1 & #3...I guess #10 just as a matter of course, are the only ones that apply to my position as a contract technician...we have an administrator who does a lot of the other stuff...<o:p></o:p>  <o:p></o:p> Just out of curosity, who actually does this job at your school?   How many technicians work there?   <o:p></o:p>  <o:p></o:p> David Ilvedson, RPT <st1:place w:st="on"><st1:City w:st="on">Pacifica</st1:City>, <st1:State w:st="on">CA</st1:State> <st1:PostalCode w:st="on">94044</st1:PostalCode></st1:place><o:p></o:p> <div style='border:none;border-left:solid black 2.25pt;padding:0in 0in 0in 4.0pt'> <div class=MsoNormal align=center style='text-align:center'> <hr size=2 width="100%" align=center> </div> Original message From: "Jim Busby" <jim_busby@byu.edu>  </jim_busby@byu.edu>To: "<st1:PersonName w:st="on">College and University Technicians</st1:PersonName>" <caut@ptg.org>  </caut@ptg.org>Received: 11/1/2007 3:50:13 PM Subject: Re: [CAUT] CAUT credential vs. academic program?<o:p></o:p> Paul, others,<o:p></o:p>  <o:p></o:p> Good thoughts Paul. This one sentence is what I want to comment on “If an RPT/ CAUT is to be something "more desireable" than an RPT status, then different standards should be established”.  I don’t see the CAUT credential as something “more desirable” or higher, better than, etc. It seems to me like it’s just “different”, or “in addition to” RPT. My understanding of a “CAUT Credential” is that it will help CAUTs focus on things that non CAUTs may not need. For example;<o:p></o:p>  <o:p></o:p> <ol style='margin-top:0in' start=1 type=1> <li class=MsoNormal style='color:navy;mso-list:l0 level1 lfo3'>Inventory management (database, how to manage, systematically refurbish, keep at optimum state)  <o:p></o:p></li> <li class=MsoNormal style='color:navy;mso-list:l0 level1 lfo3'>Managing capital budgets (Inventory replacement, This is a HUGE deal here)  <o:p></o:p></li> <li class=MsoNormal style='color:navy;mso-list:l0 level1 lfo3'>Interpersonal skills (Dealing with administration, faculty, students, custodians, etc.)  <o:p></o:p></li> <li class=MsoNormal style='color:navy;mso-list:l0 level1 lfo3'>Administrating a student employee/mentoring/apprenticeship program (Again, BIG here)  <o:p></o:p></li> <li class=MsoNormal style='color:navy;mso-list:l0 level1 lfo3'>Philanthropy/Donations (We work closely with groups here that find us the pianos/$ we want)  <o:p></o:p></li> <li class=MsoNormal style='color:navy;mso-list:l0 level1 lfo3'>Shop management (With 426 pianos we really have to schedule ahead, have parts ready, etc. etc.)  <o:p></o:p></li> <li class=MsoNormal style='color:navy;mso-list:l0 level1 lfo3'>Loaner programs (Heaven help me if I ever have to get involved with them… but a class might help w/dos and don’ts)  <o:p></o:p></li> <li class=MsoNormal style='color:navy;mso-list:l0 level1 lfo3'>Teaching piano technology (college level classes)  <o:p></o:p></li> <li class=MsoNormal style='color:navy;mso-list:l0 level1 lfo3'>Humidity control/HVAC systems  <o:p></o:p></li> <li class=MsoNormal style='color:navy;mso-list:l0 level1 lfo3'>Longevity in refurbishing methods (How to do things better and last longer in the high pressure CAUT environ) <o:p></o:p></li> </ol>  <o:p></o:p> David I. said “Why reinvent the wheel”… well, we’re not really trying to do that, are we? Isn’t the main reason behind having this CAUT Credential to enhance/help us AS CAUTs? Isn’t it to pursue skills that are different than “normal” (for lack of a better word) piano serving? <o:p></o:p>  <o:p></o:p> Maybe I’m missing something here.<o:p></o:p>  <o:p></o:p> Jim Busby BYU<o:p></o:p>  <o:p></o:p>  <o:p></o:p> <div> <div class=MsoNormal align=center style='text-align:center'> <hr size=2 width="100%" align=center tabindex=-1> </div> From: caut-bounces@ptg.org [mailto:caut-bounces@ptg.org] On Behalf Of Paul T Williams Sent: Thursday, November 01, 2007 4:12 PM To: <st1:PersonName w:st="on">College and University Technicians</st1:PersonName> Subject: Re: [CAUT] CAUT credential vs. academic program?<o:p></o:p> </div>  <o:p></o:p> Jeff, Since we don't have a time machine to test that, then yes, it is "impossible to measure"  How do you know what to do if the pianist says " it's difficult to control the pedaling during the pianissimo section of the development in the second movement" or "the presto section of so and so's piece is nearly impossible to acheive"? This kind of musical knowledge is crucial to make the artist happy. Some musicians attempt to put things in layman's terms, but many don't. They do a lot of assuming that we understand their speak. On the other side, some musicians try to understand our lingo and many do, but most don't.  The more education on both sides of the coin, the better the end result will be. At the very least, we should understand musical nomenclature even if we can only play chopsticks. Diversity of learning involves both education and life experiences. Where do you/we draw the line?  There is no "formula" to do this...  Do you want a clear-cut solution? That too, is "impossible". What is your "perfect solution" , then?  There is none, but we have to start with something. If an RPT/ CAUT is to be something "more desireable" than an RPT status, then different standards should be established. So, how would you determine what that is? Or, should we just go with the status-quo for universities to mearly know that RPT's have reached a great level of piano technology and leave the education learned elsewhere by the wayside? Paul <o:p></o:p> <table class=MsoNormalTable border=0 cellpadding=0 width="100%" style='width:100.0%'> <tr> <td width="40%" valign=top style='width:40.0%;padding:.75pt .75pt .75pt .75pt'> Jeff Tanner <jtanner@mozart.sc.edu> Sent by: caut-bounces@ptg.org <o:p></o:p> 10/31/2007 01:11 PM <o:p></o:p> <table class=MsoNormalTable border=1 cellpadding=0> <tr> <td valign=top bgcolor=white style='background:white;padding:.75pt .75pt .75pt .75pt'> Please respond to <st1:PersonName w:st="on">College and University Technicians</st1:PersonName> <caut@ptg.org><o:p></o:p> </td> </tr> </table>  <o:p></o:p> </td> <td width="59%" valign=top style='width:59.0%;padding:.75pt .75pt .75pt .75pt'> <table class=MsoNormalTable border=0 cellpadding=0 width="100%" style='width:100.0%'> <tr> <td valign=top style='padding:.75pt .75pt .75pt .75pt'> To<o:p></o:p> </td> <td valign=top style='padding:.75pt .75pt .75pt .75pt'> <st1:PersonName w:st="on">College and University Technicians</st1:PersonName> <caut@ptg.org> <o:p></o:p> </td> </tr> <tr> <td valign=top style='padding:.75pt .75pt .75pt .75pt'> cc<o:p></o:p> </td> <td valign=top style='padding:.75pt .75pt .75pt .75pt'>  <o:p></o:p> </td> </tr> <tr> <td valign=top style='padding:.75pt .75pt .75pt .75pt'> Subject<o:p></o:p> </td> <td valign=top style='padding:.75pt .75pt .75pt .75pt'> Re: [CAUT] CAUT credential vs. academic program?<o:p></o:p> </td> </tr> </table>  <o:p></o:p> <table class=MsoNormalTable border=0 cellpadding=0> <tr> <td valign=top style='padding:.75pt .75pt .75pt .75pt'>  <o:p></o:p> </td> <td valign=top style='padding:.75pt .75pt .75pt .75pt'>  <o:p></o:p> </td> </tr> </table>  <o:p></o:p> </td> </tr> </table> On Oct 31, 2007, at 8:42 AM, Paul T Williams wrote:  It's nice to know what they're talking about, but you can't "require" such a diversity of learning for being a CAUT.  It just helps a bunch. I think whether it helps a bunch is dependent on who thinks so.  How would you know how much it has helped since you have the education?  It is impossible to measure that versus how much you could have learned without pursuing the formal education the "establishment" requires. Yes, I'm like you.  I had several majors, beginning with Information Technology, General Business, Risk Management and Choral Education, studying voice and being actively involved in several performing ensembles and other performing opportunities from the 1st day of classes my freshman year before I finished with the Business degree.  Yes.  I was taking major level voice instruction and representing the school at state wide competitions and other events as a Business major. But to say it "helps a bunch" is difficult to measure. We are machine technicians.  What we actually do has little to do with music, whether we want to admit it or not.  Music can be created when we are finished, but it is not necessary to know much about music to do high level piano work.  It seems that persons with high levels of musicianship and musical training tend to pursue our craft, and also tend to be the ones who pursue CAUT work.  But I believe it is possible to do very high level work in our field without much musical knowledge. Jeff Jeff Tanner, <st1:PlaceName w:st="on">RPT</st1:PlaceName> <st1:PlaceType w:st="on">University</st1:PlaceType> of <st1:State w:st="on"><st1:place w:st="on">South Carolina</st1:place></st1:State> <o:p></o:p> </div> </div> </body> </html>