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<DIV><FONT face="Times New Roman" size=3>Diane, I did meet a technician who ises
fish glue when replacing a broken upright hammershank. I am trying it for grand
hammers now. We'll see.</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT face="Times New Roman" size=3></FONT> </DIV>
<DIV><FONT face="Times New Roman" size=3>Ted</FONT></DIV>
<BLOCKQUOTE
style="PADDING-RIGHT: 0px; PADDING-LEFT: 5px; MARGIN-LEFT: 5px; BORDER-LEFT: #000000 2px solid; MARGIN-RIGHT: 0px">
<DIV style="FONT: 10pt arial">----- Original Message ----- </DIV>
<DIV
style="BACKGROUND: #e4e4e4; FONT: 10pt arial; font-color: black"><B>From:</B>
<A title=dianepianotuner@msn.com href="mailto:dianepianotuner@msn.com">Diane
Hofstetter</A> </DIV>
<DIV style="FONT: 10pt arial"><B>To:</B> <A title=caut@ptg.org
href="mailto:caut@ptg.org">College and University Technicians</A> </DIV>
<DIV style="FONT: 10pt arial"><B>Sent:</B> Thursday, November 29, 2007 3:09
AM</DIV>
<DIV style="FONT: 10pt arial"><B>Subject:</B> Re: [CAUT] glues, Poletti</DIV>
<DIV><BR></DIV>I'm interested in the question of glues, because I recently
watched an unsighted technician gluing grand hammers on with Titebond.
Most of his glue joints were starved for glue and none had glue collars.
I always used hot hide glue, which I found easy to use, made great glue
collars and gave a nice, straight job. But I can see where that is
impractical for this tech, so have been wondering what I might suggest to him
in the way of a better glue and better method. Ted, you mentioned fish glue
for key bushings, do you think it would be appropriate for hammers? Does
anyone have any good ideas?<BR>Thanks!<BR>Diane<BR><BR>Diane
Hofstetter<BR><BR>> From: edward.sambell@sympatico.ca<BR>> To:
caut@ptg.org<BR>> Date: Wed, 28 Nov 2007 15:15:06 -0500<BR>> Subject:
Re: [CAUT] glues, Poletti<BR>> <BR>> I read somewhere that all glues
will creep to a greater or lesser degree. <BR>> When I was teaching at
George Brown College, it was impractical to have a <BR>> large number of
glue pots for hammer gluing, much as I would have preferred <BR>> hide
glue, so we used Titebond. It was much harder to extract hammers from <BR>>
the shanks with this than those glued with hide glue, though ten minutes
<BR>> with a heat gun let them be pulled off readily.The soundboard splits
we <BR>> commonly encounter in old pianos are mostly not true splits at
all, but are <BR>> separated joins, thus showing that creep has occured by
shearing at the <BR>> ribs. It can be assumed that most of these soundbards
were glued with hide <BR>> glue. It is just as well. as if the joints hold,
there would be true splits, <BR>> which would be very difficult to shim
unless the grain is very straight. I <BR>> enjoy working with hide glue,
but it is more demanding. It must be carefully <BR>> controlled in
viscosity, though this is also an asset; large work such as <BR>> cabinetry
(and soundboards) should be heated, clamps prepared ahead of <BR>> assembly
and applied very quickly.I have taken to using fish glue for key <BR>>
re-bushing;, but found it necessary to prime coat the mortices first with a
<BR>> 50-50% dilute with water. It is slow setting, but will take hold
quickly. <BR>> Fish glue is easily reversible with the usual mix of warm
water and a little <BR>> wallpaper remover. It is availabele from Veritas.
There is a small bottle <BR>> with a brush in the lid which is ideal for
light field repairs, and refill <BR>> 17oz. bottles. I have seen failures
with hide glue through lack of <BR>> understanding. One new grand I saw had
a large number of loose hammerheads. <BR>> The glue collars were all near
black, indicating the glue had been boiled. <BR>> Hide glue must not be
heated above 150F. 140F to 145F is considered the <BR>> proper range. Bill
Spurlock recommends the use of a Rival Express Hot Pot <BR>> and setting
its temperature with the aid of a candy thermometer. I saw these <BR>>
recently in Wal-Mart, and think it a great idea. They cost around $15 <BR>>
compared to $100 or so for a dedicated glue pot.<BR>> <BR>> Ted
Sambell<BR>> ----- Original Message ----- <BR>> From: "Richard Brekne"
<ricb@pianostemmer.no><BR>> To: <pianotech@ptg.org>;
<caut@ptg.org><BR>> Sent: Wednesday, November 28, 2007 2:40
AM<BR>> Subject: [CAUT] glues, Poletti<BR>> <BR>> <BR>> > Hi
Anne<BR>> ><BR>> > Creep in conditions like you mention seem quite
easy to understand. There <BR>> > is a kind of shear stress on a hitch
pin rail that is glued to a <BR>> > soundboard. But there is another
point from his site I found very <BR>> > disturbing . The assertion that
Titebond and similar glues never really <BR>> > harden and impart (to
some degree) kind of damping effect, absorbing some <BR>> > of the
vibration energy instead of either reflecting or transmitting. This <BR>>
> has immediate implications for modern piano building as well as older
<BR>> > instruments. I'm not so sure how much a problem Creep is in
situations <BR>> > where there is not immediate and significant levels
of shear stress on the <BR>> > glue. But I'd like very much to hear more
in depth comments about all this <BR>> > in general.<BR>>
><BR>> > I'm not sure I'd have a problem using Titebond to fix a
broken shank out <BR>> > on some field repair job. But thats not really
what I was talking about. <BR>> > When in a restoration shop one has a
variety of choices at hand.<BR>> ><BR>> > Cheers<BR>> >
RicB<BR>> ><BR>> ><BR>> > Ric wrote:<BR>> ><BR>>
> Hi Folks<BR>> ><BR>> > Reading in one of Anne Ackers i found
a reference to the website<BR>> > of one<BR>> > Paul Poletti who
has a side dedicated to glue. Please look over the<BR>> > following and
provide comment.<BR>> ><BR>> > Thanks<BR>> > RicB<BR>>
> ******************************<BR>> ><BR>> ><BR>>
><BR>> > He's absolutely right. Most harpsichords built with
aliphatic glues in <BR>> > the 1970's and 1980's demonstrate cold creep
very nicely with the <BR>> > shrinking of the gap as the soundboard
creeps forward, e.g.<BR>> ><BR>> > Besides, hide glue is so EASY
to use. If it stinks, you're using bad <BR>> > stuff.<BR>>
><BR>> > Anne <BR><BR></BLOCKQUOTE></BODY></HTML>