<html> <head> <META HTTP-EQUIV="Content-Type" CONTENT="text/html; charset=us-ascii"> <meta name=Generator content="Microsoft Word 10 (filtered)"> <style>  </style> </head> <body lang=EN-US link=blue vlink=blue> <div class=Section1> Or perhaps you missed something.  Del just posted something on shortening the cantilever on the M, not eliminating it.  The factors that have been discussed have not been limited to the cantilever alone but also include the backscale length, proximity of the low tenor bridge in relation to the bass bridge, scaling, soundboard design especially in the bass end of the piano, hitch pin arrangements to name a few.  And as our Norwegian colleague will no doubt inform you, “improved” is only a state of mind.    <div> David Love davidlovepianos@comcast.net www.davidlovepianos.com </div> -----Original Message----- From: caut-bounces@ptg.org [mailto:caut-bounces@ptg.org] On Behalf Of Keith Roberts Sent: Friday, May 02, 2008 9:18 AM To: Ed Sutton; College and University Technicians Subject: Re: [CAUT] Bass bridge, string scale, cantilevered bridge, tone   <div> I just attended the soundboard design class 2 by Urlich Sauter. The question was posed to him as to why the one piano had a cantelever bass and the other didn't. He said On this piano he felt the sound benefited more from the scale being longer but the bridge needed to be placed away from the rim farther. It was not an excessive cantelever and very well built. He obviously listened to it both ways and he was of the opinion the cantelever improved the overall sound. You guys who insist that in all instances, no cantilever is better than some, you must be missing something. </div> <div> Keith Roberts </div> <div> On Fri, May 2, 2008 at 8:06 AM, Ed Sutton <<a href="mailto:ed440@mindspring.com">ed440@mindspring.com</a>> wrote: Bruce doesn't claim to have the only answer. He seems to thrive on the thought that there can be many different kinds of pianos. Ed <div> ----- Original Message ----- From: "Jim Busby" <<a href="mailto:jim_busby@byu.edu" target="_blank">jim_busby@byu.edu</a>> </div> To: "Ed Sutton" <<a href="mailto:ed440@mindspring.com" target="_blank">ed440@mindspring.com</a>>; "College and University Technicians" <<a href="mailto:caut@ptg.org" target="_blank">caut@ptg.org</a>> Sent: Friday, May 02, 2008 10:59 AM Subject: RE: [CAUT] Bass bridge, string scale, cantilevered bridge, tone <div> <div> True. That's why I quoted him, even though it goes against what I've seen. I'm still very much the rooky/learner at this. Jim -----Original Message----- From: <a href="mailto:caut-bounces@ptg.org" target="_blank">caut-bounces@ptg.org</a> [mailto:<a href="mailto:caut-bounces@ptg.org" target="_blank">caut-bounces@ptg.org</a>] On Behalf Of Ed Sutton Sent: Friday, May 02, 2008 8:37 AM To: College and University Technicians Subject: Re: [CAUT] Bass bridge, string scale, cantilevered bridge, tone Jim- I can't think of anyone with as broad an experience of the industry as Bruce's. He designed and built the real Falcone piano, and he is the the person who designs the new Mason and Hamlin pianos, and gets them built. He's very open to innovation, but recognizes that an innovation has to be made to work in the factory and must be accepted by the market. He seems to be hitting the mark with Mason & Hamlin. Ed Sutton ----- Original Message ----- From: "Jim Busby" <<a href="mailto:jim_busby@byu.edu" target="_blank">jim_busby@byu.edu</a>> To: <<a href="mailto:ilvey@sbcglobal.net" target="_blank">ilvey@sbcglobal.net</a>>; "College and UniversityTechnicians" <<a href="mailto:caut@ptg.org" target="_blank">caut@ptg.org</a>> Sent: Friday, May 02, 2008 8:51 AM Subject: Re: [CAUT] Bass bridge, string scale, cantilevered bridge, tone David, FWIW, Bruce Clark (M&H #1 man) and I had a lengthy discussion about this. He played some bass notes for me and said "With a bass like this why would we want to change?" He's not a believer but admits he hasn't tried it. Jim Busby -----Original Message----- From: <a href="mailto:caut-bounces@ptg.org" target="_blank">caut-bounces@ptg.org</a> [mailto:<a href="mailto:caut-bounces@ptg.org" target="_blank">caut-bounces@ptg.org</a>] On Behalf Of David Ilvedson Sent: Thursday, May 01, 2008 10:12 PM To: <a href="mailto:caut@ptg.org" target="_blank">caut@ptg.org</a> Subject: Re: [CAUT] Bass bridge, string scale, cantilevered bridge, tone Speaking of the belt, I noticed on a newer Mason & Hamlin A that it had a pretty short backscale, especially the lower notes.   If a modification was to be done (I'm not planning this or anything, just interested) would material be removed from the belt and the bridge moved closer toward the t-pins? David Ilvedson, RPT Pacifica, CA  94044 ----- Original message ---------------------------------------- From: "David Love" <<a href="mailto:davidlovepianos@comcast.net" target="_blank">davidlovepianos@comcast.net</a>> To: "College and University Technicians" <<a href="mailto:caut@ptg.org" target="_blank">caut@ptg.org</a>> Received: 5/1/2008 4:12:22 PM Subject: Re: [CAUT] Bass bridge, string scale, cantilevered bridge, tone Yes, belt.  That was it!  Age is a cruel thing... <blockquote style='border:none;border-left:solid #CCCCCC 1.0pt;padding:0in 0in 0in 6.0pt; margin-left:0in;margin-right:0in'>   David Love <a href="mailto:davidlovepianos@comcast.net" target="_blank">davidlovepianos@comcast.net</a> <a href="http://www.davidlovepianos.com/" target="_blank">www.davidlovepianos.com</a> </blockquote> <blockquote style='border:none;border-left:solid #CCCCCC 1.0pt;padding:0in 0in 0in 6.0pt; margin-left:0in;margin-right:0in'>   -----Original Message----- From: <a href="mailto:caut-bounces@ptg.org" target="_blank">caut-bounces@ptg.org</a> [mailto:<a href="mailto:caut-bounces@ptg.org" target="_blank">caut-bounces@ptg.org</a>] On Behalf Of Delwin D Fandrich Sent: Thursday, May 01, 2008 3:17 PM To: 'College and University Technicians' Subject: Re: [CAUT] Bass bridge, string scale, cantilevered bridge, tone </blockquote> <blockquote style='border:none;border-left:solid #CCCCCC 1.0pt;padding:0in 0in 0in 6.0pt; margin-left:0in;margin-right:0in'>   The part of the plate between the bass bridge and the lower part of the tenor bridge is traditionally called the "belt." </blockquote> <blockquote style='border:none;border-left:solid #CCCCCC 1.0pt;padding:0in 0in 0in 6.0pt; margin-left:0in;margin-right:0in'>   Del </blockquote> <blockquote style='border:none;border-left:solid #CCCCCC 1.0pt;padding:0in 0in 0in 6.0pt; margin-left:0in;margin-right:0in'>   | -----Original Message----- | From: <a href="mailto:caut-bounces@ptg.org" target="_blank">caut-bounces@ptg.org</a> [mailto:<a href="mailto:caut-bounces@ptg.org" target="_blank">caut-bounces@ptg.org</a>] On | Behalf Of David Love | Sent: May 01, 2008 1:27 PM | To: 'College and University Technicians' | Subject: Re: [CAUT] Bass bridge, string scale, cantilevered | bridge, tone | | I meant the plate.  I realize there's an apron on a | cantilevered bass bridge but I always thought that part of | the plate in front of the bass bridge was also called the | apron.  Brain cells could well be deteriorating--everything else is. | | David Love | <a href="mailto:davidlovepianos@comcast.net" target="_blank">davidlovepianos@comcast.net</a> | <a href="http://www.davidlovepianos.com/" target="_blank">www.davidlovepianos.com</a> </blockquote>   </div> </div> </div>   </div> </body> </html>