Jim, I let you know how they work.  By oriented correctly, I assume you mean wide side on the bottom? Paul <table width=100%> <tr valign=top> <td width=40%>Jim Busby <jim_busby@byu.edu> Sent by: caut-bounces@ptg.org 05/22/2008 01:37 PM <table border> <tr valign=top> <td bgcolor=white> <div align=center>Please respond to College and University Technicians <caut@ptg.org></div></table> <td width=59%> <table width=100%> <tr valign=top> <td> <div align=right>To</div> <td>College and University Technicians <caut@ptg.org> <tr valign=top> <td> <div align=right>cc</div> <td> <tr valign=top> <td> <div align=right>Subject</div> <td>Re: [CAUT] Some like it Hot/Some like it Cold!</table> <table> <tr valign=top> <td> <td></table> </table> Paul,   For a D you may find about .010 difference overall with +/- a green or blue punching here and there. It’s a good time to refine dip. Jon (and others) says the conical are best. Making sure they’re oriented correctly.   Good luck!   Jim <div align=center> <hr></div> From: caut-bounces@ptg.org [mailto:caut-bounces@ptg.org] On Behalf Of Paul T Williams Sent: Thursday, May 22, 2008 11:20 AM To: College and University Technicians Subject: Re: [CAUT] Some like it Hot/Some like it Cold!   Hi Jim and all, I'm convinced enough to try 'em.  I ordered a few sets yesterday.  I will, without a full regulation, put them in one of our Steinway D's first and have the piano faculty chair, Paul Barnes, sit and play it and see what he has to say.  Of course, I will make sure key dip, aftertouch is regulated if needed to where he likes it first!. but anything else will be very close to what is there right now. (actually really good at the moment). I'm hoping for the best. Thanks for all the input everyone! Paul <table width=100%> <tr valign=top> <td width=47%>Jim Busby <jim_busby@byu.edu> Sent by: caut-bounces@ptg.org 05/22/2008 11:44 AM <table border=4> <tr valign=top> <td bgcolor=white> <div align=center>Please respond to College and University Technicians <caut@ptg.org></div></table> <td width=52%> <table width=100%> <tr valign=top> <td width=12%> <div align=right>To</div> <td width=87%>College and University Technicians <caut@ptg.org> <tr valign=top> <td> <div align=right>cc</div> <td>  <tr valign=top> <td> <div align=right>Subject</div> <td>Re: [CAUT] Some like it Hot/Some like it Cold!</table>   <table> <tr valign=top> <td>  <td> </table> </table> Hi Paul,   Sorry for the late reply.   Guru regulator I am not… <G> But I do know that excessive aftertouch = death to repetition. Gould, Horowitz, and other legends were known to not want much, if any, aftertouch. (BTW, I do like some aftertouch) The Crescendo punchings don’t compress as much so you get a firm felling of the bottom of the key and exactly where it is. To my limited understanding and experience this is why it “works better”. I just know what the pianists say. As far as the tone goes, there is a difference. You can play with it yourself. (Ed Foote’s post.)   BTW, I’ve tested the compression (with my Mitutoyo gauge and a rather unscientific “this squishes down more” test) and the felt they use on a D and the CF are similar in firmness, yet the “key noise” is a bit different. Now, why would Steinway and Yamaha put different felt on their concert instruments and not their uprights? (cost?) This whole thing might seem like “straining at the gnat” as the saying goes, but to me it seems like something that works.   Regards, Jim <div align=center>   <hr></div> From: caut-bounces@ptg.org [mailto:caut-bounces@ptg.org] On Behalf Of Paul T Williams Sent: Monday, May 19, 2008 5:48 PM To: College and University Technicians Subject: Re: [CAUT] Some like it Hot/Some like it Cold!   Jim,  Thank you!! Maybe you should just wave your "I'm great at regulating" flag!!!!  Yea for you!  I'm still not sold as to why these punchings are so great.  Please explain.  How in the world do punchings affect tone????? (I think I'm really good at regulating too, but tone/voicing is still on my "to-do" list.  Does anyone think they're the BEST at that ;>)  I've never been frowned at for my regulations.....tone/voicing...maybe somewhat, but I've fixed it to suit them... but not regulating! I'm getting better tho being in concert situations much more often! :>)  Does anyone think they have the "perfect voicing" down pat???? (Wally and Steve Brady are close...but then again, Steve's my mentor!) Again, it's all relative to what each pianist likes.. some, I don't like (what they think is good!!!..but I do it)  This will ever be a debate as to what the perfect tone is on any piano.  Some like it HOT and some like it COLD. As to my first question...do 3/4" punchings compared to 1" punchings make a difference? And why are there  differences in size when only a 7/8th keyboard would play in? Thanks again Jim.. I reeealy like your imput! (Everyone else too for that matter!) Paul ps.  I'm still interested in trying those newfangled Werzen punchings, but I need more support as to why I should. <table width=100%> <tr valign=top> <td width=33%>Jim Busby <jim_busby@byu.edu> Sent by: caut-bounces@ptg.org 05/19/2008 03:27 PM   <table border=4> <tr valign=top> <td bgcolor=white> <div align=center>Please respond to College and University Technicians <caut@ptg.org></div></table> <td width=66%>  <table width=100%> <tr valign=top> <td width=6%> <div align=right>To</div> <td width=93%>"ilvey@sbcglobal.net" <ilvey@sbcglobal.net>, College and University        Technicians <caut@ptg.org> <tr valign=top> <td> <div align=right>cc</div> <td>  <tr valign=top> <td> <div align=right>Subject</div> <td>Re: [CAUT] 3/4" front rail cloth punchings</table>     <table> <tr valign=top> <td>  <td> </table> </table> Hi David, It's denser, but I wouldn't call it "hard". It's still very soft but doesn't compress as much. I've find that I can regulate with less aftertouch which seems to give better control and faster repetition. I don't need to "sell" you on it, you may not like it, but between Vince and I we've probably put on 70-80 sets and in some cases didn't even tell the pianist. In 100% (so far :-) they've not only noticed a big difference, but have loved the way it played. Vince even tells me he thinks it sounds different... He played one note and kept exchanging the two punchings, and I'll admit there was something there, but I think it was simply less "piano noise" and not piano tone. Yes, I like it, and it's been dang near miraculous to me. I like it so well I chop it up and add some to my cereal every morning. <G> Regards, Jim -----Original Message----- From: caut-bounces@ptg.org [mailto:caut-bounces@ptg.org] On Behalf Of David Ilvedson Sent: Monday, May 19, 2008 1:33 PM To: caut@ptg.org Subject: Re: [CAUT] 3/4" front rail cloth punchings I'm not convinced...I've only installed a couple of sets, but I'm not sure if I like the impact of the harder punching... David Ilvedson, RPT Pacifica, CA  94044 ----- Original message ---------------------------------------- From: "Jim Busby" <jim_busby@byu.edu> To: "College and University Technicians" <caut@ptg.org> Received: 5/19/2008 11:38:59 AM Subject: Re: [CAUT] 3/4" front rail cloth punchings >Paul, >No matter what the set it is/was, I'd consider replacing it with the "Crescendo" >punchings. (Wertzen felt. Way better.) The testing committee is now specifying >these for action models in testing. We replace them and pianists say how much >better the touch is. >Regards, >Jim Busby BYU >________________________________ >From: caut-bounces@ptg.org [mailto:caut-bounces@ptg.org] On Behalf Of Paul T >Williams >Sent: Monday, May 19, 2008 7:30 AM >To: College and University Technicians >Subject: [CAUT] 3/4" front rail cloth punchings >Hi all, >I, by accident, ordered some sets of front rail cloth punchings but received 3/4" >diameter.  I might want to send them back, but I was wondering if there is a huge >difference in the feel over the 1" dia.  punchings?  I assume the 3/4" dia.  are for >uprights, but aren't upright keys' widths pretty close to the same as grands?  I know >there are slight variances from make to make be their original design of the width >from the width of the whole keyframe.  3/4 would probably be required for 7/8th >size keyboards, but why do they really make two sizes? >Thanks for your ever-ending wisdom :>) >Paul