<!DOCTYPE html PUBLIC "-//W3C//DTD HTML 4.01 Transitional//EN"> <html> <head> <meta content="text/html;charset=windows-1252" http-equiv="Content-Type"> </head> <body bgcolor="#ffffff" text="#000000"> Thanks, Doug for your thoughtful response. I am not averse to using the S&S parts, and your points about stiffness are worth considering. Steinway had been having some problems it seemed with the drop screws (first too loose, then too tight) but a brand new set I just saw yesterday were good enough for Goldilocks! My larger concern here was for weight reduction, but I will include S&S shanks when sampling various options before making a final decision. The Steinway parts do lack the intermediate choice of knuckle ratio though, and as I like to keep the key dip in mind in my selection, I'll avoid going as far as a 17mm knuckle if possible. You ask if the shanks can be "too stiff". Of course I don't know the answer, but I could imagine that a dramatically different stiffness could affect the hammer string contact time (and contact point) and therefore the tone. Hence my reluctance to try the WNG Carbon fiber shanks before hearing them on more than the two examples that I recently heard at NEECSO this past April, all the more so since these were Mason & Hamlins and not Steinways, and neither of these two were entirely ready for primetime (the composite actions had only been temporarily installed for the seminar the previous week). - Mark Dierauf Douglas Wood wrote: <blockquote cite="mid:%3C797162ED-ADBE-42D6-9436-06C0DD26B9C4@u.washington.edu%3E" type="cite"><div class="moz-text-flowed" style="font-family: -moz-fixed">Hi, all. I'm looking for perspective in what follows, as I come from a background where the rewards for staying close to the "Steinway Way" have been very great. I am curious that the current Steinway parts have not been mentioned in this query. I have had very good results in selecting between the current production parts (look at them, they continue to get nicer even this year!) and the "pre-84" parts by noticing whether I would prefer to remove about 1 lead per key or add about 1/2-1 lead per key. I also check dip carefully, after setting the spec blow and aftertouch. If I then address all the friction points properly, most players accommodate very readily, and very happily to the final result. I do keep an eye out for errors in capstan placement, and for the occasional piano/owner combination where moving toward optimal may not be enough. But I have only rarely felt the need to either move capstans or "redesign" the action. I have had some unsatisfactory experiences with shanks that are thinned too far down the scale. For example our older D here had a history of being less and less well-accepted until I came on 5 years ago. Lang Lang was here then, and recognized that something was limiting his big sound, and we both agreed it was not tone development in the hammer. Before the next season, I took out the thinned shanks and put in current NY shanks, and the power went up the amount I would normally expect with 3 full lacquerings. !! I subsequently had to replace the hammers because I had over-lacquered them in attempting to get the full power out of the piano. My tentative conclusion about shanks is that the artists need the stiffness. Most of them are remarkable athletes at the keyboard, and it is easy to underestimate their ability to work the action. I'm quite curious about the new carbon-fiber shanks, as they should be noticeably stiffer. That should improve energy transfer. I'm wondering if it will be better all-in-all to reduce tonal changes (and what they provide in enlarging the color palette) from shank flexing in favor of energy transfer. Likely, but I hope that we'll be asking that question. Can the shanks be "too stiff"? I do understand that Steinway knows all too well how to charge for their parts. (Anyone ever thought of pegging their price increases to Steinway's?) But I do find them to work exceedingly well, and be quite durable. I am also fortunate that our staff rebuilding time is small enough that the administrator is happy to pay for as many parts of my choosing as I can actually get into pianos. Doug Wood School of Music University of Washington On Jun 25, 2008, at 8:42 AM, Mark Dierauf wrote: <blockquote type="cite">I am getting ready to order a full set of top & back action parts for an S&S B. On my last B I used Brook's Encore maple parts with NY hammers, and the Tokiwa back action, and was pleased with the results. This time am am intrigued by Bruce Clark's composite repetitions (although I'm not ready to try the carbon fiber shanks) which I believe are available, my thinking being that the versatility of heel configurations combined with the light weight might be useful in dialing in the touch-weight characteristics that I'm looking for. I'm assuming that these are too new for anybody to have any direct experience with them, but I trust that any lack of direct knowledge won't stop anyone here from piping in with their (well-reasoned, of course) opinions ;-) For shanks and flanges I'm still leaning towards the Encores, because of their light weight and the plethora of knuckle configurations. The sets that I bought a couple of years ago were well manufactured with consistent center pinning, but I saw a somewhat more recent set at a colleague's that had some inconsistencies with the angle of the knuckle cores. Any thoughts on these as opposed to Renners? Frankly I'm still a little gun shy with regard to the Tokiwas, having been burned badly more than once with center pins seizing under hard use, and this is an institutional performance/rehearsal instrument. Finally, I remember Jon Page having some bad luck with breaking underlever posts (I think) on the newer redesigned Tokiwa kits. Has this issue been resolved or is the older version of this kit still available? The last Renner kit I got had tight pinning and many of the posts were disconcertingly non-perpendicular with the underlevers, IOW the center pin drilling seemed to be off. Finally I might mention that this will be the 2nd action that I've installed in this piano, the last one having been done in 1999 along with a belly package. At the time I removed some front leading and used the Renner Turbo wips to overcome high touchweight issues on this late teflon vintage piano. The results were pretty good, but the ensuing 9 years have given me a lot more experience to better deal with touchweight. This time around I'm looking to add to that experience and get the best possible results. - Mark Dierauf </blockquote> </div> </blockquote> </body> </html>