<HTML> <HEAD> <TITLE>Re: [CAUT] piano moving stuff</TITLE> </HEAD> <BODY> Paul, I apologize for my inaccurate terminology.  I refer to the horse as “rolling” the piano over onto the skid, since the horse has a curved surface in contact with the floor.  The horse is designed so that the tail of the piano touches the skid first, then the contact moves up the side of the piano and the keyboard end touches last.  If you use the horse to tip the piano onto the raised chariot, the entire side of the piano touches the skid all at once, when the piano is at less than 45 degrees inclination, and the horse is out of the picture at that point.  You just have to muscle the piano up onto the chariot.  Perhaps I should instead say the horse’s contact point travels up the ramp as you tip the piano, preserving the process as originally designed.  The tail touches first, and you still have the three-point stability point with the rear leg, piano tail, and horse on the ground, just like when you are using a conventional skid.  The only difference is that the horse is partway up the ramp at this point.  You then continue tipping the piano in the usual fashion. Hope this clears things up, Ken Z. On 6/26/08 12:42 PM, "Paul T Williams" <pwilliams4@unlnotes.unl.edu> wrote: <BLOCKQUOTE> Thanks Ken. This sounds like a good idea.  I may get this set up for myself here in the shop. You mention that the piano horse rolls up the ramp.Could you clarify this part of it?  I didn't see the horse having wheels on Jannsen's web site.    It looks like it just lowers down on a skid-board and then you would still need to lift up one end to get a dolly under it. Paul Ken Zahringer <ZahringerK@missouri.edu> Sent by: caut-bounces@ptg.org 06/26/2008 12:07 PM Please respond to College and University Technicians <caut@ptg.org> To College and University Technicians <caut@ptg.org> cc Subject Re: [CAUT] piano moving stuff Hey, Paul, I have both of those items here and I love them.  We bought them a few years ago when we got tired of what the movers were charging.  Now we do almost all our piano moving in house.  The Wind Ensemble has a Steinway M that they use for most concerts in the percussion section.  Their practice room and concert venue are in different buildings.  I pack it up completely by myself; I only get help from one of the grad students to get it up the ramp into the truck.  I don’t think I would move a C7 without a helper, though. The piano horse and the grand chariot are great pieces of equipment, but they were not designed to work together.  You will need to make a ramp so the horse will roll up it to the platform level of the chariot.  Otherwise the piano sets down onto the platform too early, and you have to use brute force to lift the piano from about 30-40 degrees on up to vertical.  Not fun.  Some pictures of my ramp are attached.  The ramp is the same height as the chariot platform, 9 3/4”.  The ramp length is 34”, which is the length of the curved part of the horse, less 3” to set the piano down at the right spot.  That makes the base of the ramp 32 1/2”.  Note that the bottom cross brace at the high end is set in, to clear the chariot wheel.  The frame is square tubular steel, the same stuff the horse is made of.  The top surface is 3/4” plywood.  A decent welder can make it in a couple of hours.  I use a jack-in-a-box (actually a jack-on-a-post that I made) to lift the bass leg to get the piano on the horse.  After using them for 2-3 years, I would never go back to the old school ways. You might also want to check out <a href="http://www.holzter.com/">http://www.holzter.com/</a> <a href="http://www.holzter.com/"><http://www.holzter.com/></a> for their grand pads and leg/lyre carriers.  Pretty cool stuff. Regards, Ken Z. On 6/25/08 12:27 PM, "Paul T Williams" <pwilliams4@unlnotes.unl.edu> wrote: Hi all I hope your time in Anaheim was good for all! We have a professor here who is going to be "on the road" with her Yamaha C-7 this fall.  she asked me about piano moving stuff and mentioned the piano horse (janssen) and something called a "grand chariot"  which looks more like a skidboard with wheels. Have any of you used these things?  Are they worth the money? (she has a grant to buy said items)  Anything better out there? Thanks in advance Paul </BLOCKQUOTE> -- Ken Zahringer, RPT Piano Technician MU School of Music 297 Fine Arts 882-1202 cell 489-7529 </BODY> </HTML>