Thanks DP I'm sold on going to GR, but not sold on Amway ;>) PW <table width=100%> <tr valign=top> <td width=40%>"Ward & Probst, Inc" <wardprobst@wardprobst.com> Sent by: caut-bounces@ptg.org 06/25/2008 05:02 PM <table border> <tr valign=top> <td bgcolor=white> <div align=center>Please respond to College and University Technicians <caut@ptg.org></div></table> <td width=59%> <table width=100%> <tr valign=top> <td> <div align=right>To</div> <td>"'College and University Technicians'" <caut@ptg.org> <tr valign=top> <td> <div align=right>cc</div> <td> <tr valign=top> <td> <div align=right>Subject</div> <td>Re: [CAUT] piano moving stuff</table> <table> <tr valign=top> <td> <td></table> </table> PW,   Many movers regularly turn grands on the lyre without problems. I don't because we have the Horse and it seems safer to me. Gordon Crail, who invented the Horse, is a friend and we have a prototype that has been used for years in the shop and on the road. He suggests, blocking the tail end of the dolly up, using a person to counter balance the key end, and using a lift strap. Doing this saves a lot of strain, as about half of the lift is done. I don't have pics of the skids but the GC is sort of like what we have. We have fixed wheels in the center and swivel wheels at each end. I enjoyed the Annual and it seemed to me that most everyone else did. The facility was good and the Institute and Home Office staff had every thing running smoothly. Next year it will be in Grand Rapids, MI at the Amway Grand Hotel which looks like one of the best venues yet. DP July 15, 2009--July 19, 2009 52ND ANNUAL CONVENTION Amway Grand Hotel Grand Rapids, MI Contact: Sandy Roady 4444 Forest Avenue, Kansas City, KS 66106 Phone: 913-432-9975 Fax: 913-432-9986    -----Original Message----- From: caut-bounces@ptg.org [mailto:caut-bounces@ptg.org] On Behalf Of Paul T Williams Sent: Wednesday, June 25, 2008 4:17 PM To: College and University Technicians Subject: Re: [CAUT] piano moving stuff I NEVER use the lyre for tilting.  Who does such a horrible thing?  How would one combine the two?  I'm trying to visualize  getting the lifting of the back end of the grand away for getting a dolly under....  Sure would save some backs!!! pw ps Thanks.  I think I may get a Horse for myself here in the shop..  It looks real good.  any pics of your shop built thing? How was natonal? pw <table width=100%> <tr valign=top> <td width=49%>"Ward & Probst, Inc" <wardprobst@wardprobst.com> Sent by: caut-bounces@ptg.org 06/25/2008 02:34 PM <table border=4> <tr valign=top> <td bgcolor=white> <div align=center>Please respond to College and University Technicians <caut@ptg.org></div></table> <td width=50%> <table width=100%> <tr valign=top> <td width=12%> <div align=right>To</div> <td width=87%>"'College and University Technicians'" <caut@ptg.org> <tr valign=top> <td> <div align=right>cc</div> <td> <tr valign=top> <td> <div align=right>Subject</div> <td>Re: [CAUT] piano moving stuff</table> <table> <tr valign=top> <td> <td></table> </table> Hi Paul,   Use the Horse all the time and love it. The only problem may be combining the two. It looks like the Grand Chariot <a href=http://www.premiermovingequipment.com/>http://www.premiermovingequipment.com/</a> may be raised off the ground a bit and the Horse is designed to take the piano to the ground. I use something similar to the GC that is shop built and it requires more care to use it in combination with the Horse. Looks like the GC is designed for those who use the lyre for turning.   DP Dale Probst, RPT Midwestern State University -----Original Message----- From: caut-bounces@ptg.org [mailto:caut-bounces@ptg.org] On Behalf Of Paul T Williams Sent: Wednesday, June 25, 2008 12:28 PM To: caut@ptg.org Subject: [CAUT] piano moving stuff Hi all I hope your time in Anaheim was good for all! We have a professor here who is going to be "on the road" with her Yamaha C-7 this fall.  she asked me about piano moving stuff and mentioned the piano horse (janssen) and something called a "grand chariot"  which looks more like a skidboard with wheels. Have any of you used these things?  Are they worth the money? (she has a grant to buy said items)  Anything better out there? Thanks in advance Paul