<!DOCTYPE HTML PUBLIC "-//W3C//DTD HTML 4.0 Transitional//EN"> <HTML><HEAD> <META http-equiv=Content-Type content="text/html; charset=utf-8"> <META content="MSHTML 6.00.6000.16681" name=GENERATOR> <STYLE></STYLE> </HEAD> <BODY bgColor=#ffffff> <DIV> <DIV>Jim-</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>Here's my T, which I've used solo with smaller pianos. My preference is to pull the action and clamp the T to the keybed, but I have also screwed it to the bottom of the keybed.  Neatly made holes don't seem so bad on the bottom of the keybed.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>One of the movers in Charlotte has made a round bottomed lyre substitute with holes and slots to fit on pianos with lyre bolts, otherwise he screws it to the keybed.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>Ed S.</DIV> <BLOCKQUOTE dir=ltr style="PADDING-RIGHT: 0px; PADDING-LEFT: 5px; MARGIN-LEFT: 5px; BORDER-LEFT: #000000 2px solid; MARGIN-RIGHT: 0px"> <DIV style="FONT: 10pt arial">----- Original Message ----- </DIV> <DIV style="BACKGROUND: #e4e4e4; FONT: 10pt arial; font-color: black">From: <A title=jim_busby@byu.edu href="mhtml:{DC568EBD-41D8-40BD-BE57-C3774DE1907E}mid://00004095/!x-usc:mailto:jim_busby@byu.edu">Jim Busby</A> </DIV> <DIV style="FONT: 10pt arial">To: <A title=ed440@mindspring.com href="mhtml:{DC568EBD-41D8-40BD-BE57-C3774DE1907E}mid://00004095/!x-usc:mailto:ed440@mindspring.com">Ed Sutton</A> ; <A title=caut@ptg.org href="mhtml:{DC568EBD-41D8-40BD-BE57-C3774DE1907E}mid://00004095/!x-usc:mailto:caut@ptg.org">College and University Technicians</A> </DIV> <DIV style="FONT: 10pt arial">Sent: Tuesday, July 01, 2008 5:04 PM</DIV> <DIV style="FONT: 10pt arial">Subject: RE: [CAUT] piano moving stuff</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV class=Section1> Ed,<?xml:namespace prefix = o ns = "urn:schemas-microsoft-com:office:office" /><o:p></o:p> <o:p> </o:p> I get the drift of how this will work, and I like it. Keith and I are designing one. One question; do you just drill new holes in the pianos to attach it or do you drill new holes through the jig for different pianos? If the latter, how is the easiest way? Seems like two new holes in the pianos (since they’re “our” pianos) wouldn’t be a big deal.<o:p></o:p> <o:p> </o:p> Thanks Ed. Good job in <?xml:namespace prefix = st1 ns = "urn:schemas-microsoft-com:office:smarttags" /><st1:City w:st="on"><st1:place w:st="on">Anaheim</st1:place></st1:City>, BTW!<o:p></o:p> <o:p> </o:p> Regards,<o:p></o:p> Jim<o:p></o:p> <o:p> </o:p> <DIV> <DIV class=MsoNormal style="TEXT-ALIGN: center" align=center> <HR tabIndex=-1 align=center width="100%" SIZE=2> </DIV> From: caut-bounces@ptg.org [mailto:caut-bounces@ptg.org] On Behalf Of <st1:PersonName w:st="on">Ed Sutton</st1:PersonName> Sent: Tuesday, July 01, 2008 10:47 AM To: <st1:PersonName w:st="on">College and University Technicians</st1:PersonName> Subject: Re: [CAUT] piano moving stuff<o:p></o:p></DIV> <o:p> </o:p> <DIV> Next time I tip a piano...<o:p></o:p></DIV> <DIV> Ed<o:p></o:p></DIV> <BLOCKQUOTE style="BORDER-RIGHT: medium none; PADDING-RIGHT: 0in; BORDER-TOP: medium none; PADDING-LEFT: 4pt; PADDING-BOTTOM: 0in; MARGIN: 5pt 0in 5pt 3.75pt; BORDER-LEFT: black 1.5pt solid; PADDING-TOP: 0in; BORDER-BOTTOM: medium none"> <DIV> ----- Original Message ----- <o:p></o:p></DIV> <DIV style="font-color: black"> From: <A title=jim_busby@byu.edu href="mhtml:{DC568EBD-41D8-40BD-BE57-C3774DE1907E}mid://00004095/!x-usc:mailto:jim_busby@byu.edu">Jim Busby</A> <o:p></o:p></DIV> <DIV> To: <A title=caut@ptg.org href="mhtml:{DC568EBD-41D8-40BD-BE57-C3774DE1907E}mid://00004095/!x-usc:mailto:caut@ptg.org">College and University Technicians</A> <o:p></o:p></DIV> <DIV> Sent: Monday, June 30, 2008 4:37 PM<o:p></o:p></DIV> <DIV> Subject: Re: [CAUT] piano moving stuff<o:p></o:p></DIV> <DIV> <o:p> </o:p></DIV> Ed,<o:p></o:p> <o:p> </o:p> Yes. Photos! (Please? : ->)<o:p></o:p> <o:p> </o:p>  Jim<o:p></o:p> <o:p> </o:p> <o:p> </o:p> <o:p> </o:p> <o:p> </o:p> <DIV> <DIV class=MsoNormal style="TEXT-ALIGN: center" align=center> <HR tabIndex=-1 align=center width="100%" SIZE=2> </DIV> From: <A href="mhtml:{DC568EBD-41D8-40BD-BE57-C3774DE1907E}mid://00004095/!x-usc:mailto:caut-bounces@ptg.org">caut-bounces@ptg.org</A> [mailto:caut-bounces@ptg.org] On Behalf Of Fred Sturm Sent: Thursday, June 26, 2008 12:41 PM To: <st1:PersonName w:st="on">Ed Sutton</st1:PersonName>; <st1:PersonName w:st="on">College and University Technicians</st1:PersonName> Subject: Re: [CAUT] piano moving stuff<o:p></o:p></DIV> <o:p> </o:p> Hi Ed,<o:p></o:p> <DIV>             Sounds like a great idea. Photos?<o:p></o:p><SPAN style="WORD-SPACING: 0px; orphans: 2; widows: 2; -webkit-border-horizontal-spacing: 0px; -webkit-border-vertical-spacing: 0px; -webkit-text-decorations-in-effect: none; -webkit-text-size-adjust: auto; -webkit-text-stroke-width: 0"> <DIV apple-content-edited="true"> <DIV style="WORD-WRAP: break-word; -webkit-nbsp-mode: space; -webkit-line-break: after-white-space"> <DIV> Regards,<o:p></o:p></DIV> <DIV> Fred Sturm<o:p></o:p></DIV> <DIV> <st1:place w:st="on"><st1:PlaceType w:st="on">University</st1:PlaceType> of <st1:PlaceName w:st="on">New Mexico</st1:PlaceName></st1:place><o:p></o:p></DIV> <DIV> <A href="mhtml:{DC568EBD-41D8-40BD-BE57-C3774DE1907E}mid://00004095/!x-usc:mailto:fssturm@unm.edu">fssturm@unm.edu</A><o:p></o:p></DIV> <DIV> <o:p> </o:p></DIV></DIV> <o:p> </o:p></DIV> <o:p> </o:p> <DIV> <DIV> On Jun 26, 2008, at 11:31 AM, <st1:PersonName w:st="on">Ed Sutton</st1:PersonName> wrote:<o:p></o:p></DIV> <o:p> </o:p><SPAN style="WORD-SPACING: 0px; orphans: 2; widows: 2; -webkit-border-horizontal-spacing: 0px; -webkit-border-vertical-spacing: 0px; -webkit-text-decorations-in-effect: none; -webkit-text-size-adjust: auto; -webkit-text-stroke-width: 0"><?XML:NAMESPACE PREFIX = U1 /><U1:SMARTTAGTYPE namespaceuri="urn:schemas-microsoft-com:office:smarttags" name="PlaceType"></U1:SMARTTAGTYPE><U1:SMARTTAGTYPE namespaceuri="urn:schemas-microsoft-com:office:smarttags" name="PlaceName"></U1:SMARTTAGTYPE><U1:SMARTTAGTYPE namespaceuri="urn:schemas-microsoft-com:office:smarttags" name="Street"></U1:SMARTTAGTYPE><U1:SMARTTAGTYPE namespaceuri="urn:schemas-microsoft-com:office:smarttags" name="PostalCode"></U1:SMARTTAGTYPE><U1:SMARTTAGTYPE namespaceuri="urn:schemas-microsoft-com:office:smarttags" name="City"></U1:SMARTTAGTYPE><U1:SMARTTAGTYPE namespaceuri="urn:schemas-microsoft-com:office:smarttags" name="address"></U1:SMARTTAGTYPE><U1:SMARTTAGTYPE namespaceuri="urn:schemas-microsoft-com:office:smarttags" name="State"></U1:SMARTTAGTYPE><U1:SMARTTAGTYPE namespaceuri="urn:schemas-microsoft-com:office:smarttags" name="place"></U1:SMARTTAGTYPE><U1:SMARTTAGTYPE namespaceuri="urn:schemas-microsoft-com:office:smarttags" name="PersonName"></U1:SMARTTAGTYPE> <DIV bgcolor="#ffffff" link="blue" vlink="blue"> <DIV> List,<o:p></o:p></DIV> <DIV>  <o:p></o:p></DIV> <DIV> For turning small pianos in tight spaces, make a "T" of 2 x 4's, reinforced with plywood plates. The leg should be about the length of the lyre.<o:p></o:p></DIV> <DIV> Remove the lyre and screw the T to the keybed, or also remove the action and clamp the T along the front of the keybed. Unlike the horse, it will turn the piano "in place." If you're tipping onto blocks or a raised skid board, attach the T a little bit off center to the bass side and the piano will land comfortably balanced for the "up lift."<o:p></o:p></DIV> <DIV>  <o:p></o:p></DIV> <DIV> <st1:PersonName w:st="on">Ed Sutton</st1:PersonName><o:p></o:p></DIV> <BLOCKQUOTE style="BORDER-RIGHT: medium none; PADDING-RIGHT: 0in; BORDER-TOP: medium none; PADDING-LEFT: 4pt; PADDING-BOTTOM: 0in; MARGIN: 5pt 0in 5pt 3.75pt; BORDER-LEFT: black 1.5pt solid; PADDING-TOP: 0in; BORDER-BOTTOM: medium none"> <DIV> ----- Original Message -----<o:p></o:p></DIV> <DIV style="-webkit-background-clip: initial; -webkit-background-origin: initial"> From: <A title=jim_busby@byu.edu href="mhtml:{DC568EBD-41D8-40BD-BE57-C3774DE1907E}mid://00004095/!x-usc:mailto:jim_busby@byu.edu">Jim Busby</A><o:p></o:p></DIV> <DIV> To: <A title=caut@ptg.org href="mhtml:{DC568EBD-41D8-40BD-BE57-C3774DE1907E}mid://00004095/!x-usc:mailto:caut@ptg.org">College and University Technicians</A><o:p></o:p></DIV> <DIV> Sent: Thursday, June 26, 2008 1:18 PM<o:p></o:p></DIV> <DIV> Subject: Re: [CAUT] piano moving stuff<o:p></o:p></DIV> <DIV> <o:p> </o:p></DIV> <DIV> <DIV> List,<U1:P></U1:P><o:p></o:p></DIV> <DIV> <U1:P> </U1:P><o:p></o:p></DIV> <DIV> In very small practice rooms sometimes moving on the lyre is the only way. The main problem with this practice is the loosening of lyre wedges, etc. and so you must always check the integrity of the lyre. One of the best movers in <st1:state u2:st="on"><st1:place w:st="on"><st1:State w:st="on">Utah</st1:State></st1:state></st1:place> always uses the lyre and claims 40 years of “no problems”. I have a horse. Love it, sometimes…<U1:P></U1:P><o:p></o:p></DIV> <DIV> <U1:P> </U1:P><o:p></o:p></DIV> <DIV> Jim Busby<U1:P></U1:P><o:p></o:p></DIV> <DIV> <U1:P> </U1:P><o:p></o:p></DIV> <DIV> <DIV class=MsoNormal style="TEXT-ALIGN: center" align=center> <HR tabIndex=-1 align=center width="100%" SIZE=2> </DIV> <DIV> From: <A href="mhtml:{DC568EBD-41D8-40BD-BE57-C3774DE1907E}mid://00004095/!x-usc:mailto:caut-bounces@ptg.org">caut-bounces@ptg.org</A> [<A href="mhtml:{DC568EBD-41D8-40BD-BE57-C3774DE1907E}mid://00004095/!x-usc:mailto:caut-bounces@ptg.org">mailto:caut-bounces@ptg.org</A>] On Behalf Of Ward & Probst, Inc Sent: Wednesday, June 25, 2008 4:00 PM To: '<st1:personname u2:st="on"><st1:PersonName w:st="on">College and University Technicians</st1:PersonName></st1:personname>' Subject: Re: [CAUT] piano moving stuff<o:p></o:p></DIV></DIV> <DIV><U1:P></U1:P> <U1:P> </U1:P><o:p></o:p></DIV> <DIV> <DIV> PW,<o:p></o:p></DIV></DIV> <DIV><U1:P></U1:P> <DIV>  <U1:P></U1:P><o:p></o:p></DIV></DIV> <DIV> <DIV> Many movers regularly turn grands on the lyre without problems. I don't because we have the Horse and it seems safer to me. Gordon Crail, who invented the Horse, is a friend and we have a prototype that has been used for years in the shop and on the road. He suggests, blocking the tail end of the dolly up, using a person to counter balance the key end, and using a lift strap. Doing this saves a lot of strain, as about half of the lift is done. I don't have pics of the skids but the GC is sort of like what we have. We have fixed wheels in the center and swivel wheels at each end. <o:p></o:p></DIV></DIV> <DIV><U1:P></U1:P> <DIV> I enjoyed the Annual and it seemed to me that most everyone else did. The facility was good and the Institute and Home Office staff had every thing running smoothly. Next year it will be in <st1:city u2:st="on"><st1:place w:st="on"><st1:City w:st="on">Grand Rapids</st1:City></st1:city>, <st1:state u2:st="on"><st1:State w:st="on">MI</st1:State></st1:place></st1:state> at the Amway Grand Hotel which looks like one of the best venues yet.<o:p></o:p></DIV></DIV> <DIV><U1:P></U1:P> <DIV> DP <o:p></o:p></DIV></DIV><U1:P></U1:P> <DIV> July 15, 2009--July 19, 2009<U1:P></U1:P><o:p></o:p> <BLOCKQUOTE style="MARGIN-TOP: 5pt; MARGIN-BOTTOM: 5pt"> <DIV> 52ND ANNUAL CONVENTION Amway Grand Hotel <st1:city u2:st="on"><st1:place w:st="on"><st1:City w:st="on">Grand Rapids</st1:City></st1:city>, <st1:state u2:st="on"><st1:State w:st="on">MI</st1:State></st1:place></st1:state> Contact: Sandy Roady <st1:street u2:st="on"><st1:address w:st="on"><st1:address w:st="on"><st1:Street w:st="on">4444 Forest Avenue</st1:Street></st1:street></st1:address>, <st1:city u2:st="on"><st1:City w:st="on">Kansas City</st1:City></st1:city>, <st1:state u2:st="on"><st1:State w:st="on">KS</st1:State></st1:state> <st1:postalcode u2:st="on"><st1:PostalCode w:st="on">66106</st1:PostalCode></st1:address></st1:postalcode> Phone: 913-432-9975 Fax: 913-432-9986<U1:P></U1:P><o:p></o:p></DIV></BLOCKQUOTE></DIV> <BLOCKQUOTE style="MARGIN-TOP: 5pt; MARGIN-BOTTOM: 5pt; MARGIN-RIGHT: 0in"> <DIV>  <o:p></o:p></DIV> <DIV><U1:P></U1:P>  -----Original Message----- From: <A href="mhtml:{DC568EBD-41D8-40BD-BE57-C3774DE1907E}mid://00004095/!x-usc:mailto:caut-bounces@ptg.org">caut-bounces@ptg.org</A> [<A href="mhtml:{DC568EBD-41D8-40BD-BE57-C3774DE1907E}mid://00004095/!x-usc:mailto:caut-bounces@ptg.org">mailto:caut-bounces@ptg.org</A>] On Behalf Of Paul T Williams Sent: Wednesday, June 25, 2008 4:17 PM To: <st1:personname u2:st="on"><st1:PersonName w:st="on">College and University Technicians</st1:PersonName></st1:personname> Subject: Re: [CAUT] piano moving stuff<U1:P></U1:P><o:p></o:p></DIV> <DIV> I NEVER use the lyre for tilting.  Who does such a horrible thing?  How would one combine the two?  I'm trying to visualize  getting the lifting of the back end of the grand away for getting a dolly under....  Sure would save some backs!!! pw  ps Thanks.  I think I may get a Horse for myself here in the shop..  It looks real good.  any pics of your shop built thing?  How was natonal?  pw  <o:p></o:p></DIV> <TABLE class=MsoNormalTable style="WIDTH: 100%" cellPadding=0 width="100%" border=0> <TBODY> <TR> <TD style="PADDING-RIGHT: 0.75pt; PADDING-LEFT: 0.75pt; PADDING-BOTTOM: 0.75pt; WIDTH: 40%; PADDING-TOP: 0.75pt" vAlign=top width="40%"> <DIV> <U1:P></U1:P>"Ward & Probst, Inc" <<A href="mhtml:{DC568EBD-41D8-40BD-BE57-C3774DE1907E}mid://00004095/!x-usc:mailto:wardprobst@wardprobst.com">wardprobst@wardprobst.com</A>>  Sent by: <A href="mhtml:{DC568EBD-41D8-40BD-BE57-C3774DE1907E}mid://00004095/!x-usc:mailto:caut-bounces@ptg.org">caut-bounces@ptg.org</A><o:p></o:p></DIV> <U1:P></U1:P>06/25/2008 02:34 PM<U1:P></U1:P><o:p></o:p> <TABLE class=MsoNormalTable cellPadding=0 border=1> <TBODY> <TR> <TD style="PADDING-RIGHT: 0.75pt; PADDING-LEFT: 0.75pt; BACKGROUND: white; PADDING-BOTTOM: 0.75pt; PADDING-TOP: 0.75pt; -webkit-background-clip: initial; -webkit-background-origin: initial" vAlign=top bgColor=white> Please respond to <st1:personname u2:st="on"><st1:PersonName w:st="on">College and University Technicians</st1:PersonName></st1:personname> <<A href="mhtml:{DC568EBD-41D8-40BD-BE57-C3774DE1907E}mid://00004095/!x-usc:mailto:caut@ptg.org">caut@ptg.org</A>><o:p></o:p></TD></TR><U1:P></U1:P></TBODY></TABLE><U1:P></U1:P> <o:p></o:p></TD> <TD style="PADDING-RIGHT: 0.75pt; PADDING-LEFT: 0.75pt; PADDING-BOTTOM: 0.75pt; WIDTH: 59%; PADDING-TOP: 0.75pt" vAlign=top width="59%"> <TABLE class=MsoNormalTable style="WIDTH: 100%" cellPadding=0 width="100%" border=0> <TBODY> <TR> <TD style="PADDING-RIGHT: 0.75pt; PADDING-LEFT: 0.75pt; PADDING-BOTTOM: 0.75pt; PADDING-TOP: 0.75pt" vAlign=top> To<o:p></o:p></TD><U1:P></U1:P> <TD style="PADDING-RIGHT: 0.75pt; PADDING-LEFT: 0.75pt; PADDING-BOTTOM: 0.75pt; PADDING-TOP: 0.75pt" vAlign=top> <DIV> "'<st1:personname u2:st="on"><st1:PersonName w:st="on">College and University Technicians</st1:PersonName></st1:personname>'" <<A href="mhtml:{DC568EBD-41D8-40BD-BE57-C3774DE1907E}mid://00004095/!x-usc:mailto:caut@ptg.org">caut@ptg.org</A>><o:p></o:p></DIV></TD></TR> <TR> <TD style="PADDING-RIGHT: 0.75pt; PADDING-LEFT: 0.75pt; PADDING-BOTTOM: 0.75pt; PADDING-TOP: 0.75pt" vAlign=top> cc<o:p></o:p></TD><U1:P></U1:P> <TD style="PADDING-RIGHT: 0.75pt; PADDING-LEFT: 0.75pt; PADDING-BOTTOM: 0.75pt; PADDING-TOP: 0.75pt" vAlign=top> <DIV> <U1:P> </U1:P><o:p></o:p></DIV></TD></TR> <TR> <TD style="PADDING-RIGHT: 0.75pt; PADDING-LEFT: 0.75pt; PADDING-BOTTOM: 0.75pt; PADDING-TOP: 0.75pt" vAlign=top> Subject<o:p></o:p></TD><U1:P></U1:P> <TD style="PADDING-RIGHT: 0.75pt; PADDING-LEFT: 0.75pt; PADDING-BOTTOM: 0.75pt; PADDING-TOP: 0.75pt" vAlign=top> <DIV> Re: [CAUT] piano moving stuff<o:p></o:p></DIV></TD></TR></TBODY></TABLE> <DIV> <U1:P> </U1:P><o:p></o:p></DIV> <TABLE class=MsoNormalTable cellPadding=0 border=0> <TBODY> <TR> <TD style="PADDING-RIGHT: 0.75pt; PADDING-LEFT: 0.75pt; PADDING-BOTTOM: 0.75pt; PADDING-TOP: 0.75pt" vAlign=top> <DIV> <U1:P> </U1:P><o:p></o:p></DIV></TD> <TD style="PADDING-RIGHT: 0.75pt; PADDING-LEFT: 0.75pt; PADDING-BOTTOM: 0.75pt; PADDING-TOP: 0.75pt" vAlign=top> <DIV> <U1:P> </U1:P><o:p></o:p></DIV></TD></TR></TBODY></TABLE><U1:P></U1:P> <o:p></o:p></TD></TR></TBODY></TABLE> <DIV> Hi Paul,     Use the Horse all the time and love it. The only problem may be combining the two. It looks like the Grand Chariot<A href="mhtml:{DC568EBD-41D8-40BD-BE57-C3774DE1907E}mid://00004095/!x-usc:http://www.premiermovingequipment.com/">http://www.premiermovingequipment.com/</A> may be raised off the ground a bit and the Horse is designed to take the piano to the ground. I use something similar to the GC that is shop built and it requires more care to use it in combination with the Horse. Looks like the GC is designed for those who use the lyre for turning.     DP  Dale Probst, <st1:placename u2:st="on"><st1:place w:st="on"><st1:PlaceName w:st="on">RPT</st1:PlaceName></st1:placename>  <st1:placename u2:st="on"><st1:PlaceName w:st="on">Midwestern</st1:PlaceName></st1:placename> <st1:placetype u2:st="on"><st1:PlaceType w:st="on">State</st1:PlaceType></st1:placetype> <st1:placetype u2:st="on"><st1:PlaceType w:st="on">University</st1:PlaceType></st1:placetype></st1:place>  -----Original Message----- From: <A href="mhtml:{DC568EBD-41D8-40BD-BE57-C3774DE1907E}mid://00004095/!x-usc:mailto:caut-bounces@ptg.org">caut-bounces@ptg.org</A> [<A href="mhtml:{DC568EBD-41D8-40BD-BE57-C3774DE1907E}mid://00004095/!x-usc:mailto:caut-bounces@ptg.org">mailto:caut-bounces@ptg.org</A>] On Behalf Of Paul T Williams Sent: Wednesday, June 25, 2008 12:28 PM To: <A href="mhtml:{DC568EBD-41D8-40BD-BE57-C3774DE1907E}mid://00004095/!x-usc:mailto:caut@ptg.org">caut@ptg.org</A> Subject: [CAUT] piano moving stuff Hi all  I hope your time in <st1:city u2:st="on"><st1:place w:st="on"><st1:City w:st="on">Anaheim</st1:City></st1:city></st1:place> was good for all!  We have a professor here who is going to be "on the road" with her Yamaha C-7 this fall.  she asked me about piano moving stuff and mentioned the piano horse (janssen) and something called a "grand chariot"  which looks more like a skidboard with wheels.  Have any of you used these things?  Are they worth the money? (she has a grant to buy said items)  Anything better out there?  Thanks in advance  Paul<o:p></o:p></DIV></BLOCKQUOTE></DIV></BLOCKQUOTE></DIV></DIV> <o:p> </o:p></DIV></BLOCKQUOTE><U1:P></U1:P></DIV></BLOCKQUOTE></DIV></BODY></HTML>