That sounds about the same as here, David.  The M&H's and Steinways are "tough enough" to handle the pounding.  In the classrooms, we have Steinway and Baldwin R's and a couple upright Disklaviers. They all get tuned probably 3-4 times a year where the practice rooms I do often and the concert pianos sometimes several times a week! The classroom and practice pianos need to be better than average quality as they (the classrooms) are often rehersal rooms for small ensembles.  I could see having Yamaha or Kawai in the classrooms, but how many times can you rebuild them with confidence and smart fund allocating? Disposable pianos I just wouldn't want to consider. Does this help some more? Paul <table width=100%> <tr valign=top> <td width=40%>"Porritt, David" <dporritt@mail.smu.edu> Sent by: caut-bounces@ptg.org 07/02/2008 07:15 AM <table border> <tr valign=top> <td bgcolor=white> <div align=center>Please respond to College and University Technicians <caut@ptg.org></div></table> <td width=59%> <table width=100%> <tr valign=top> <td> <div align=right>To</div> <td>"College and University Technicians" <caut@ptg.org> <tr valign=top> <td> <div align=right>cc</div> <td> <tr valign=top> <td> <div align=right>Subject</div> <td>Re: [CAUT] University piano replacement program</table> <table> <tr valign=top> <td> <td></table> </table> Tony:   I my experience the pianos subjected to the hardest use are the practice room grands.  They have a grueling life.  They need to be as substantially made as possible.  Since they are substantial pianos rebuilding is logical.  If you have pianos there with light rims, light duty key beds etc. when you approach the second or third rebuild you start to question the foundation.  All of our practice room grand pianos are Steinways – not that they are the only heavy duty pianos – it’s just that’s what we happen to have.  As to tuning, I do all the practice room grands about every 6 weeks or whenever I walk down that hallway and am embarrassed by what I hear.  Only the performance pianos are tuned more frequently.   Classroom pianos, while important, don’t get either the use or the care that practice room pianos get – at least here.   dp   David M. Porritt, RPT <a href=dporritt@smu.edu>dporritt@smu.edu</a>   From: caut-bounces@ptg.org [mailto:caut-bounces@ptg.org] On Behalf Of tony Sent: Wednesday, July 02, 2008 6:45 AM To: College and University Technicians Subject: Re: [CAUT] University piano replacement program   <table width=100%> <tr> <td width=100%>Thanks Paul and David,   I was assuming the importance of the concert, & studio instruments. That's a given!   What I was getting at, is, if (and I know this might be a large if) but if we were to submit a plan for total "long term" replacement (with repair & rebuilding concert instruments)  How important is it to have "High quality" Classroom & Practice rooms pianos. To cut costs in a replacement program do you feel "middle priced" Grands or verticals would hold up? (Yamaha, Kawai, Pramberger, Knabe, etc.) How important is the price range of these pianos?   My experience is the more expensive the piano, the more delicate it is (more sensitive to humidity changes and less tuning stability. In a new piano, assuming the pinblock is tight, doesn't the board move more in a "high quality" piano with a thinner board designed for better tone? Is that necessary for the Practice room pianos? How frequently can you get to these pianos to tune them in a year? Doesn't the care & maintenance of the "Quality" Concert and Studio pianos constantly change you tuning plans and become priority?   Your thoughts please..........and anyone else! <img src=cid:_1_06E01F1C06E01CC800520C758625747A>  Tony Mastadonna Institutional Sales Consultant   <img src=cid:_2_06E02BA806E0295400520C758625747A>     Cell-330-603-8843     <img src=cid:_1_06E032AC06E0305800520C758625747A> -------Original Message-------   From: <a href=mailto:dporritt@mail.smu.edu>Porritt, David</a> Date: 7/1/2008 6:58:14 PM To: <a href=mailto:caut@ptg.org>College and University Technicians</a> Subject: Re: [CAUT] University piano replacement program   Paul:   We all have to do whatever our leaders and our budget will allow but frankly I’d like it if we only bought new grand pianos if we needed additional instruments.  I’ve long been convinced that full remanufacturing will get you more instrument for less money than trading them.  We had one D redesigned 3 years ago and is in my view far better than the new ones.  We have another out right now that will be returned just before school starts that………..I’ll let you know how it does but my prediction is it will blow away any new ones.  AND we will have spent a small fraction of the cost of a new one.   Uprights on the other hand, I’m trying to get a plan in place that will replace 2 uprights a year in perpetuity.  Uprights are not as cost effective to remanufacture (at least in my experience) so replacement is the logical course of action.   dave     David M. Porritt, RPT <a href=mailto:dporritt@smu.edu>dporritt@smu.edu</a>   From: caut-bounces@ptg.org [mailto:caut-bounces@ptg.org] On Behalf Of Paul T Williams Sent: Tuesday, July 01, 2008 5:04 PM To: College and University Technicians Subject: Re: [CAUT] University piano replacement program   Hi Tony, Realistic plan replacement at UNL is a hard one to "sell".  We have many Steinway and Mason &  Hamilin grands in our practice rooms.  Most of them are 40-80 years old, but with new actions, key bushings, etc.  Replacing them vs. fixing them is the reality of the university setting. We have to actually see reality in that we can not just replace them with new pianos even though we would love to do so. Performance pianos, of course, get the most attention.  I am currently replacing an entire action on a 1956 Baldwin D which, still, will need a new soundboard, pinblock, and whole nine yards, but we have to spread out the budget the best we can and this piano is one of our 'concert' instruments.  We also have three Steinway D's much newer and in excellent condition.  Every school has it's own budget and by what Ive seen, we have a pretty good one, but still not what would be considered "great".  The really great schools like Oberlin, Julliard, etc probably have a great replacement program as they are recognized as world famous.  For the main-stream university programs, I would say that they only replace pianos when they just can't be worth the investment.  I  regularly tune repair etc these instruments as they are played 12-14 hours a day.  Now with summer here, I have a chance to get in an try to fix the ongoing problems with certain pianos, but still have no time to rebuild them. Does this help?? Paul <table width=100%> <tr valign=top> <td width=50%>"tony" <amastadonna@neo.rr.com> Sent by: caut-bounces@ptg.org 07/01/2008 03:55 PM <table border=4> <tr valign=top> <td bgcolor=white> <div align=center>Please respond to College and University Technicians <caut@ptg.org></div></table> <td width=49%> <table width=100%> <tr valign=top> <td width=14%> <div align=right>To</div> <td width=85%><caut@ptg.org> <tr valign=top> <td> <div align=right>cc</div> <td> <tr valign=top> <td> <div align=right>Subject</div> <td>[CAUT] University piano replacement program</table>   <table> <tr valign=top> <td> <td></table> </table>   <table width=100%> <tr> <td width=100%>I have a question........   In creating a "realistic" Piano replacement plan for approval by an university administration,   What would you recommend the basic specifications of the practice room pianos be?   How would you compare their importance to the school verses the studio and performance instruments.   If you would need to "cut" would this be the natural place?   And how many times a year do you get to these pianos for tuning?       <img src=cid:_1_0723B34C0723A9BC00520C758625747A> Tony Mastadonna Institutional Sales Consultant   <img src=cid:_2_0723B6F80723A9BC00520C758625747A>    Cell-330-603-8843    <img src=cid:_1_0723B9D80723A9BC00520C758625747A> <tr> <td> <table width=100%> <tr> <td width=50%> <td width=50%></table> </table>     <tr> <td> <table width=100%> <tr> <td width=50%> <td width=50%></table> </table>