<!DOCTYPE HTML PUBLIC "-//W3C//DTD HTML 4.0 Transitional//EN"> <HTML><HEAD> <META http-equiv=Content-Type content="text/html; charset=us-ascii"> <META content="MSHTML 6.00.2900.3354" name=GENERATOR></HEAD> <BODY> <DIV dir=ltr align=left><FONT face=Arial size=2><SPAN class=909222614-07072008>Hi, I haven't posted to th<FONT color=#0000ff><SPAN class=533392320-07072008><FONT color=#000000>is</FONT></SPAN><SPAN class=533392320-07072008> </SPAN></FONT>listserve before so let's see if this works.</SPAN></FONT></DIV> <DIV><FONT face=Arial size=2><SPAN class=909222614-07072008></SPAN></FONT> </DIV> <DIV><SPAN class=909222614-07072008><FONT face=Arial><FONT size=2><SPAN class=533392320-07072008><FONT color=#0000ff><FONT color=#000000>I have some questions about tuning pins that have been baffling me for quite awhile, and I wanted to see if anyone else here has been as baffled by any or all of these same questions, or has an answer</FONT>. </FONT><FONT color=#000000>Please feel free to address just one, or any of these questions.</FONT></SPAN></FONT></FONT></SPAN></DIV> <DIV><SPAN class=909222614-07072008><FONT face=Arial><FONT size=2><SPAN class=533392320-07072008></SPAN></FONT></FONT></SPAN> </DIV> <DIV><SPAN class=909222614-07072008><FONT face=Arial><FONT size=2><SPAN class=533392320-07072008>I would love to see a discussion by parties hopefully much more knowledgeable than myself, about why these silly pins are the way they are today.</SPAN></FONT></FONT></SPAN></DIV> <DIV><FONT face=Arial size=2><SPAN class=909222614-07072008></SPAN></FONT> </DIV> <DIV><FONT face=Arial size=2><SPAN class=909222614-07072008>(This may have been covered before somewhere in the Archives, but if it was, I couldn't find it. So if it's there, I apologize in advance; could someone just point me to where it is? Thanks.)</SPAN></FONT></DIV> <DIV><FONT face=Arial size=2><SPAN class=909222614-07072008></SPAN></FONT> </DIV> <DIV><SPAN class=909222614-07072008><FONT face=Arial><FONT size=2>I've attached a photo for reference. <SPAN class=533392320-07072008><FONT color=#0000ff> <FONT color=#000000>(See attached).</FONT> </FONT></SPAN></FONT></FONT></SPAN></DIV> <DIV><FONT face=Arial size=2><SPAN class=909222614-07072008></SPAN></FONT> </DIV> <DIV><SPAN class=909222614-07072008><FONT face=Arial><FONT size=2>The photo <SPAN class=533392320-07072008><FONT color=#0000ff><FONT color=#000000>shows</FONT> </FONT></SPAN>the three basic types of tuning pins we routinely see. <SPAN class=533392320-07072008><FONT color=#0000ff> <FONT color=#000000>This is pretty much what the pins look like, I think you will agree.</FONT> </FONT></SPAN></FONT></FONT></SPAN></DIV> <DIV><FONT face=Arial size=2><SPAN class=909222614-07072008></SPAN></FONT> </DIV> <DIV><FONT face=Arial size=2><SPAN class=909222614-07072008>On the far left is a blued steel pin, in the middle a nickel plated pin, and on the far right a nickel plated/blued thread pin. (The end pins are Nippon Denro, the middle pin I think from an Asian piano, maybe Kawai, as it seems to be metric.)</SPAN></FONT></DIV> <DIV><FONT face=Arial size=2><SPAN class=909222614-07072008></SPAN></FONT> </DIV> <DIV><SPAN class=909222614-07072008><FONT face=Arial><FONT size=2>The pin in the middle<FONT color=#0000ff><SPAN class=533392320-07072008> <FONT color=#000000>with the nickel plated threads</FONT></SPAN><SPAN class=533392320-07072008><FONT color=#000000>, - </FONT></SPAN><SPAN class=533392320-07072008><FONT color=#000000>we all know what's wrong with it, right? And hardly anyone uses this type of pin anymore, apparently</FONT>. <FONT color=#000000>(Although we often see it when restringing older Kawais and other Asian Pianos.)</FONT></SPAN></FONT></FONT></FONT></SPAN></DIV> <DIV><FONT face=Arial size=2><SPAN class=909222614-07072008></SPAN></FONT> </DIV> <DIV><SPAN class=909222614-07072008><FONT face=Arial><FONT size=2><SPAN class=533392320-07072008><FONT color=#0000ff><FONT color=#000000>So</FONT> </FONT><FONT color=#000000>t</FONT></SPAN>he following questions pertain mainly to the "blued" vs "nickel-blued pins".</FONT></FONT></SPAN></DIV> <DIV><FONT face=Arial size=2><SPAN class=909222614-07072008></SPAN></FONT> </DIV> <DIV><FONT face=Arial size=2><SPAN class=909222614-07072008>The questions I have are:</SPAN></FONT></DIV> <DIV><FONT face=Arial size=2><SPAN class=909222614-07072008></SPAN></FONT> </DIV> <DIV><SPAN class=909222614-07072008><FONT face=Arial><FONT size=2>1) <FONT color=#0000ff><SPAN class=533392320-07072008> <FONT color=#000000>If they both have blued threads, </FONT></SPAN><SPAN class=533392320-07072008><FONT color=#000000> w</FONT></SPAN></FONT>hy are the threads on the "blued steel" pin <SPAN class=533392320-07072008><FONT color=#0000ff><FONT color=#000000>such</FONT> </FONT></SPAN>a different color than on the "nickel-blued" pin?<SPAN class=533392320-07072008><FONT color=#0000ff> </FONT><FONT color=#000000>(Aren't we looking at blued steel threads on both? Or does the nickel-blued pin still have nickel in the threads? Or have they added some type of color to make it bright blue?)</FONT></SPAN></FONT></FONT></SPAN></DIV> <DIV><SPAN class=909222614-07072008><SPAN class=533392320-07072008><FONT face=Arial color=#0000ff size=2></FONT></SPAN></SPAN> </DIV> <DIV><SPAN class=909222614-07072008><FONT face=Arial><FONT size=2><SPAN class=533392320-07072008>1a) </SPAN>Why aren't the the threads on the "blued" pin the same color as the unthreaded portion of the pin?<SPAN class=533392320-07072008><FONT color=#0000ff>  <FONT color=#000000>(The threads look almost silver, whereas the rest of the pin is sort of midnight blue, almost black.</FONT> </FONT></SPAN>)</FONT></FONT></SPAN></DIV> <DIV><FONT face=Arial size=2><SPAN class=909222614-07072008></SPAN></FONT> </DIV> <DIV><SPAN class=909222614-07072008><FONT face=Arial><FONT size=2>2) If the threads on the "nickel-blued" pin are cut after nickel plating, (which should remove the plating on the threads right?) and then are heated in the bluing oven, why aren't they the same color as the unthreaded part of the "blued" pin?<FONT color=#0000ff><SPAN class=533392320-07072008> <FONT color=#000000>What's really going on here? )</FONT></SPAN><SPAN class=533392320-07072008> </SPAN></FONT></FONT></FONT></SPAN></DIV> <DIV><FONT face=Arial size=2><SPAN class=909222614-07072008></SPAN></FONT> </DIV> <DIV><SPAN class=909222614-07072008><FONT face=Arial><FONT size=2>3) I<SPAN class=533392320-07072008><FONT color=#0000ff><FONT color=#000000>s it possible</FONT> </FONT></SPAN>that perhaps the threads on the blued pin are cut after bluing (which removes the bluing, to a certain extent, just like it removes the layer of nickel plating on the nickel blued pin) while the threads on the nickel blued pin are blued after cutting<SPAN class=533392320-07072008><FONT color=#0000ff> </FONT><FONT color=#000000>? </FONT></SPAN> Does the order in which the operations are done affect the quality of the thread? Does having to cut through nickel plating produce an inferior thread?<SPAN class=533392320-07072008><FONT color=#0000ff>  <FONT color=#000000>Maybe dulls the thread cutting tools, since nickel is so hard?</FONT> </FONT></SPAN></FONT></FONT></SPAN></DIV> <DIV><FONT face=Arial size=2><SPAN class=909222614-07072008></SPAN></FONT> </DIV> <DIV><FONT face=Arial size=2><SPAN class=909222614-07072008>4)  <SPAN class=533392320-07072008><FONT color=#0000ff> </FONT><FONT color=#000000>W</FONT></SPAN>hy <SPAN class=533392320-07072008><FONT color=#0000ff><FONT color=#000000>is it, really,</FONT> </FONT></SPAN>the blued pins are preferred over the nickel-blued by many piano technicians?</SPAN></FONT></DIV> <DIV><FONT face=Arial size=2><SPAN class=909222614-07072008></SPAN></FONT> </DIV> <DIV><FONT face=Arial size=2><SPAN class=909222614-07072008>5) What is the real purpose<SPAN class=533392320-07072008><FONT color=#0000ff> <FONT color=#000000>/function</FONT> </FONT></SPAN> of the threads on the tuning pin, (besides <SPAN class=533392320-07072008><FONT color=#0000ff><FONT color=#000000>helping</FONT> </FONT></SPAN>back out<SPAN class=533392320-07072008><FONT color=#0000ff> </FONT></SPAN>the pin in restringing<SPAN class=533392320-07072008><FONT color=#0000ff><FONT color=#000000> )</FONT> </FONT></SPAN>. One source I<SPAN class=533392320-07072008><FONT color=#0000ff><FONT color=#000000>'ve</FONT> </FONT></SPAN> read says the threads make it easier to turn the pin in the pinblock (as opposed to an unthreaded pin). Any thoughts on this?</SPAN></FONT></DIV> <DIV><FONT face=Arial size=2><SPAN class=909222614-07072008></SPAN></FONT> </DIV> <DIV><FONT face=Arial size=2><SPAN class=909222614-07072008>6) Today apparently all tuning pins have "cut" threads, as opposed to "rolled" threads. Why is this? What does "rolled" threads mean? Why would they be inferior to cut threads?"</SPAN></FONT></DIV> <DIV><FONT face=Arial size=2><SPAN class=909222614-07072008></SPAN></FONT> </DIV> <DIV><FONT face=Arial size=2><SPAN class=909222614-07072008>7) Catherine Beilefeldt, in her book "The Wonders of the Piano", in describing the process at AMSCO (when it was still around), says that<SPAN class=533392320-07072008><FONT color=#000000>, </FONT></SPAN>there<SPAN class=533392320-07072008><FONT color=#0000ff><FONT color=#000000>,</FONT> </FONT></SPAN>both the nickel-blued and blued pins were blued after threading. Does anyone know if Nippon Denro does it differently? How about Fly Brand? Diamond?</SPAN></FONT></DIV> <DIV><FONT face=Arial size=2><SPAN class=909222614-07072008></SPAN></FONT> </DIV> <DIV><FONT face=Arial size=2><SPAN class=909222614-07072008>8) What, exactly, are the infamous "reverse cut" threads that were touted so highly by certain sales reps and dealers of Japanese pianos?</SPAN></FONT></DIV> <DIV><FONT face=Arial size=2><SPAN class=909222614-07072008></SPAN></FONT> </DIV> <DIV><FONT face=Arial size=2><SPAN class=909222614-07072008>9) What about Larry Fine's and Art Reblitz's contention that if this were really the case (if the "reverse cut" or "reverse thread" pin turned more easily in one direction than the other) it would wear the pin block out faster?</SPAN></FONT></DIV> <DIV><FONT face=Arial size=2><SPAN class=909222614-07072008></SPAN></FONT> </DIV> <DIV><FONT face=Arial size=2><SPAN class=909222614-07072008>10) Why, really, did manufacturers (except Bosendorfer) stop using tapered pins? </SPAN></FONT></DIV> <DIV><FONT face=Arial size=2><SPAN class=909222614-07072008></SPAN></FONT> </DIV> <DIV><FONT face=Arial size=2><SPAN class=909222614-07072008>I have a number of books that touch on the manufacture of piano tuning pins, but none that really seems to have more than a superficial understanding of why tuning pins are made the way they are today. </SPAN></FONT></DIV> <DIV><FONT face=Arial size=2><SPAN class=909222614-07072008></SPAN></FONT> </DIV> <DIV><FONT face=Arial size=2><SPAN class=909222614-07072008>If anyone knows of a reference work or resource that would have the history of the development of tuning pins, or an article in the PTJ (or even a thread in the CAUT or Pianotech archives) that addresses these issues, I would be very grateful if they would let me know where I can find it. You can either post your answers on the listserve, ideally, where all could benefit, or e-mail me personally at address below, if you prefer.</SPAN></FONT></DIV> <DIV><FONT face=Arial size=2><SPAN class=909222614-07072008></SPAN></FONT> </DIV> <DIV><FONT face=Arial size=2><SPAN class=909222614-07072008>Sincerely,</SPAN></FONT></DIV> <DIV><FONT face=Arial size=2><SPAN class=909222614-07072008></SPAN></FONT> </DIV> <DIV><FONT face=Arial size=2><SPAN class=909222614-07072008>Kendall Ross Bean</SPAN></FONT></DIV> <DIV><FONT face=Arial size=2><SPAN class=909222614-07072008>PianoFinders </SPAN></FONT></DIV> <DIV><FONT face=Arial size=2><SPAN class=909222614-07072008></SPAN></FONT> </DIV> <DIV><SPAN class=533361603-16112007><FONT face=Arial><FONT size=2><SPAN class=909222614-07072008>(</SPAN>e-mail: </FONT></FONT><A title=mailto:kenbean@pianofinders.com href="mailto:kenbean@pianofinders.com"><FONT face=Arial size=2>kenbean@pianofinders.com</FONT></A><FONT face=Arial><FONT size=2>)<SPAN class=909222614-07072008></SPAN></FONT></FONT></SPAN></DIV> <DIV align=left> <DIV><FONT face=Arial size=2></FONT> </DIV> <DIV><FONT face=Arial size=2><SPAN class=533361603-16112007></SPAN></FONT> </DIV> <DIV><FONT face=Arial color=#0000ff size=2><SPAN class=533361603-16112007><EM></EM></SPAN></FONT> </DIV></DIV> <DIV> </DIV></BODY></HTML>