<html> <body> Now Kendall Ross, Don't lose your humor now.  You've done so well, up to this point, ignoring old affronts, perceived or real.  You are in some good company in your history of conflict with the Organization, but, clearly, intractableness on either side usually proves detrimental to both.  There are many if not mostly fine, dedicated individuals contributing their energies to an organization that continues to struggle to both define itself and promote the field (in your case, one of the fields) we have found so rewarding to be engaged in.  While Chris S needs no help defending himself, (just with the bug in his computer that sent the same message three times), I'll suggest that, if not already apparent, he is also a humor-ful fellow.  The biggest danger of this form of communication, other than the time it takes some of us, its susceptibility to misconstruing, and the rapidity with which such misinterpretation can fatally redirect an otherwise productive interaction. As is the case with so many of these threads, there is, potentially, more going on here than most of us have time, patience, or ability (that's me) to explore.  Here's what I've thought about: 1) While I have yet to read all the posts generated by your initial list of questions, I found them very thoughtful and would have liked to see more of them explored.  2) Whether on the lists or in the field, there is, I gather, a push to promote the PTG.  While I have never been an active proselytizer, I know how important it is, and, at the same time, how it can be objectionable to some. To the extent that this was made to seem a prerequisite, Chris has already apologized 3) There seems to remain some confusion regarding whether this (CAUT) or Pianotech are, in fact official PTG sites, especially now that they are hosted by ptg.org.  That 'identity crisis' will not disappear any time soon.  Some subscribers just assume that they are conversing with their PTG sibs 4) Ed Sutton's history of 'the lists' was concise, to both its credit and detriment.  Absent is the history of conflicts that have been instrumental in establishing the particular list 'cultures'.  At some point, there was a migration to CAUT from Pianotech, not because of a sudden increase in institutional technicians, but rather because many felt that the discourse on Pianotech had intolerably degenerated.  This has put a burden on CAUT's mission as an 'open' list focused on institutional issues.  Navigating the obvious overlap is a constant process that, at times, can be aided by constructive feedback.  Double posting seems, at times, the most logical way of reaching both groups of subscribers, however, for the many (? list administrator, fill in here?) who subscribe to both lists, it creates redundancy.  The (perhaps) unfortunate fact is that MOST of the postings on CAUT, over the last two years at least, have been of general technical interest, not institutionally specific. An unintended benefit is that such a split reduces the volume on either one of the lists. I don't know what the solution is, but nothing said here, or by anyone else should be seen as discouraging your continued participation.  Maybe just try to feel out what the customs are, then consciously decide whether or not you want to observe them. At least then you'll only be flamed for your intentions. Regards - David Skolnik Hastings on Hudson, NY At 08:18 PM 7/10/2008, you wrote: <blockquote type=cite class=cite cite="">Dear Chris:   (Sigh.)   Must I join your club, and jump through all the hoops (RPT requalification), and become a bona fide CAUT, (and stay away from purely technical discussions!) in order to have anything of value to contribute?   Or can I by this point be considered to have achieved some degree of stature in the technical and musical communities, in spite of the apparent absence of such prima facie endorsements?  (i.e. - haven't I done enough already?)   (On the CAUT info page it says that CAUT is a "community service", and also that it is an "open list, allowing anyone to subscribe or submit posts." Did I somehow misunderstand?)   Can't I just be a guest for now?   (It's okay, if my contributions are not pleasing or wanted I can go somewhere else... ...sniff... ;-)  )   ~Kendall Ross Bean   PianoFinders <a href="http://www.pianofinders.com/">www.pianofinders.com</a> e-mail: <a href="mailto:kenbean@pianofinders.com">kenbean@pianofinders.com</a>   Connecting Pianos and People   "The reward for jumping through hoops is... ...more hoops". <hr> From: Chris Solliday [<a href="mailto:csolliday@rcn.com" eudora="autourl"> mailto:csolliday@rcn.com</a>] Sent: Thursday, July 10, 2008 4:26 AM To: College and University Technicians Subject: Re: [CAUT] Tuning Pin Questions - About me... Since you asked... Thank you Kendall, Well now that we know how dangerous you are (and that you have such illustrious beginnings, Charles Ball is one of the best and brightest) let me recommend that you bite the bullet on the history (I'm not sure that the bookkeeper forgot to send in the dues is a legitimate excuse according to our bylaws & regulations) and rejoin PTG and take the modern tests and become an active RPT. We need intelligent and multi-talented folks like yourself in the organization. I think you will find this to your advantage in the marketplace as we make further enroads marketing the RPT. BTW are you contracted or employed by a College or University? While we encourage discussions of all types (and yours has been most interesting) on the CAUT list, purely technical discussions are probably best directed to the piano tech list. Chris Solliday RPT Lehigh University Lafayette College East Stroudsburg University</blockquote></body> </html>