<html xmlns:v="urn:schemas-microsoft-com:vml" xmlns:o="urn:schemas-microsoft-com:office:office" xmlns:w="urn:schemas-microsoft-com:office:word" xmlns:m="http://schemas.microsoft.com/office/2004/12/omml" xmlns="http://www.w3.org/TR/REC-html40"> <head> <meta http-equiv=Content-Type content="text/html; charset=us-ascii"> <meta name=Generator content="Microsoft Word 12 (filtered medium)">  <style>  </style>  </head> <body bgcolor=white lang=EN-US link=blue vlink=purple> <div class=Section1> Kendall,<o:p></o:p> <o:p> </o:p> No offense taken.<o:p></o:p> <o:p> </o:p> Still, nothing acceptable explains why his device measured both pianos at A442 when both of mine (SAT and VT) put one at A440 and the other at A443? If you can explain that to my satisfaction in some kind of sensible, scientifically quantifiable, undeniable, verifiable, reputable and repeatable way then I will truly eat my words concerning the said Barbie toy. ; -0)<o:p></o:p> <o:p> </o:p> JB <o:p></o:p> <o:p> </o:p> <div> <div style='border:none;border-top:solid #B5C4DF 1.0pt;padding:3.0pt 0in 0in 0in'> From: caut-bounces@ptg.org [mailto:caut-bounces@ptg.org] On Behalf Of Kendall Ross Bean Sent: Saturday, July 26, 2008 1:16 PM To: 'College and University Technicians' Subject: Re: [CAUT] Barbie tuner; The Bazooka and the squirt gun; Signing off<o:p></o:p> </div> </div> <o:p> </o:p> Sorry Chris (and Jim)~<o:p></o:p>  <o:p></o:p> Again, as usual, I was unaware of the "3 replies to one e-mail rule." I had no intention of "overindulging" in this thread, but like you, Chris, I was having way too much "facetious fun with what has been said and done" that I was having difficulty leaving well enough alone. (In other words, this was too good to pass up.)<o:p></o:p>  <o:p></o:p> And Jim, it's obvious (or should be!) that this whole situation is just, of course, absolutely ridiculous; and I apologize if for any reason, in the interests of levity about something so "trying" (and which would obviously severely push the buttons of any of us), -I may have unintentionally or inadvertantly had fun at your expense (I hope you could read my sidewise emoticons).<o:p></o:p>  <o:p></o:p> >Or…… Maybe his $25.00 toy is just a piece of crap which should never have seen the light of day, and I can suggest where that is  ;-)  <o:p></o:p>  <o:p></o:p> Yes. Of course. This should be obvious.<o:p></o:p>  <o:p></o:p> We might want to ask ourselves, though, as members of a larger musical community, what the oboe player, (who has so much authority and responsibility in tuning the entire orchestra), is doing running around with, and relying so heavily on, a $25.00 "piece of crap". I wonder how many other oboe players are also relying on this means of pitch reference................... !           (Chris, we may need a lot more of those Accutuner brochures....)<o:p></o:p>  <o:p></o:p> The reason, I understand, for the oboe being the one who tunes the orchestra is that they (the oboe) have the least range/capability of pitch correction, of any of the other instruments. (Sort of like the piano; that is, after the tuner leaves.)<o:p></o:p>  <o:p></o:p> As Chris so astutely observed in an earlier post "Perception is reality." The 25.00 "piece of crap" is apparently this oboist's "reality", while your ETD's, being, together, in the multi-thousand dollar and high sophistication category, carry considerably more weight (to put it mildly). (-Sort of like Rambo pulling out his bazooka, excuse me, in this case, two bazookas, in response to the oboist's "squirt gun".) Yes, of course, we should indeed try to control our impulses, but an opportunity like that is just too tempting for any of us to resist!  I admit, I most likely would have done the same. Faced with that level of disvalidation of his reality, what could the poor oboist do but go into severe denial? ;-)<o:p></o:p>  <o:p></o:p> My experience is that no matter how seemingly untrustworthy or ill-conceived the oboist's belief system (or pitch reference), when you use a cannon (or a bazooka) to swat a fly, the fly's belief system usually survives intact, and becomes all the more vigorously defended. (But again, what one of us wouldn't have done what Jim did? Come on now, let's be honest! ;-)  )<o:p></o:p>  <o:p></o:p> My question about which partials the tuning device in question focused on was only half in jest. I was thinking about how the Accutuner measures pitch in "stretch" mode (by upper partials), and after I wrote it, quickly realized that in "tune" mode it works differently (or does it?) (I think Rick Baldassin addressed this in one of his articles, anyone remember where it was in the PTJ?)<o:p></o:p>  <o:p></o:p> Signing off for now (unless, of course, this gets really interesting!)<o:p></o:p>  <o:p></o:p> -Kendall<o:p></o:p>  <o:p></o:p> AccuFinders<o:p></o:p>  <o:p></o:p> Connecting Instrumentalists and ETD's<o:p></o:p>  <o:p></o:p>  <o:p></o:p> <o:p> </o:p> <div class=MsoNormal align=center style='text-align:center'> <hr size=2 width="100%" align=center> </div> From: Chris Solliday [mailto:csolliday@rcn.com] Sent: Saturday, July 26, 2008 6:36 AM To: College and University Technicians Subject: Re: [CAUT] Barbie tuner<o:p></o:p> <div> Hi Jim,<o:p></o:p> </div> <div>  It occurred to me after I had some facetious fun with what has been said and done that there is a "real" issue here worth mentioning. I engage in this at the risk of breaking my "3 replies to one email rule."<o:p></o:p> </div> <div> The issue is one of calibration. While it is not likely that one of "our" ETDs, the four regularly used by piano tUners, is very far off it is possible that they may need calibration from time to time. And for sure the Barbie tuner needs it. When it was last calibrated and to what standard is the real issue. The fact that you have two very high standard ETDs reading the same thing is a good bet that they are currently correct.<o:p></o:p> </div> <div> There is also a more important second real issue of public relations and there you have been advised and I know you are doing all to maintain healthy relations. Perception is reality. The arrogant double reed tyrant needs your help and guidance just as much as the apprentice in your shop. Best of luck.<o:p></o:p> </div> <div> Chris<o:p></o:p> </div> <blockquote style='border:none;border-left:solid black 1.5pt;padding:0in 0in 0in 4.0pt; margin-left:3.75pt;margin-top:5.0pt;margin-right:0in;margin-bottom:5.0pt'> <div> ----- Original Message ----- <o:p></o:p> </div> <div> From: <a href="mailto:jim_busby@byu.edu" title="jim_busby@byu.edu">Jim Busby</a> <o:p></o:p> </div> <div> To: <a href="mailto:caut@ptg.org" title="caut@ptg.org">College and University Technicians</a> <o:p></o:p> </div> <div> Sent: Saturday, July 26, 2008 8:38 AM<o:p></o:p> </div> <div> Subject: Re: [CAUT] Barbie tuner<o:p></o:p> </div> <div> <o:p> </o:p> </div> Interesting!<o:p></o:p> <o:p> </o:p> I simply used both the SAT and the Verituner to read A4 as did he with his Barbie toy. I really don’t know what his toy reads, nor exactly what both my ETDs read, but what I do know is that both my ETDs read the one piano right on A440 and the other at A443 (Right where I tuned them) and his BT read that BOTH pianos were at A442!  I don’t know if partial/inharmonicity can account for that much discrepancy or not. <o:p></o:p> <o:p> </o:p> Or…… Maybe his $25.00 toy is just a piece of crap which should be never see the light of day, and I can suggest where that is  ;-)  (That’s my 10 year old ego speaking, from the heart.)<o:p></o:p> <o:p> </o:p> Let’s see what  happens today. I’ve had several performers say they loved the pianos, but as usual, I try to tune according to my best experience/knowledge while trying to take into account that most feedback, good and bad, should be taken with a grain of salt. Sometimes the bad needs a bit more salt!<o:p></o:p> <o:p> </o:p> Regards,<o:p></o:p> Jim<o:p></o:p> <o:p> </o:p> <div> <div style='border:none;border-top:solid #B5C4DF 1.0pt;padding:3.0pt 0in 0in 0in'> From: caut-bounces@ptg.org [mailto:caut-bounces@ptg.org] On Behalf Of Kendall Ross Bean Sent: Friday, July 25, 2008 9:58 PM To: 'College and University Technicians' Subject: Re: [CAUT] Barbie tuner<o:p></o:p> </div> </div> <o:p> </o:p> Jim~<o:p></o:p>  <o:p></o:p> I just had an inspiration!<o:p></o:p>  <o:p></o:p> You could both be right! (-now don't lose me here...this is important) :<o:p></o:p>  <o:p></o:p> Which partial was the oboe player listening to? And you! Which partial were you tuning to? (Uh huh, I thought so!)<o:p></o:p>  <o:p></o:p> You see! It IS possible. It's spelled I..N..H..A..R..M..O..N..I...C...I...T...Y...<o:p></o:p>  <o:p></o:p> Did you know that oboe tone is closest to a pure sine wave? And that pure sine waves are most always perceived as flat? (Oh yes, -most 'specially by piano tooners)<o:p></o:p>  <o:p></o:p> Just go read Harvey Fletcher.<o:p></o:p>  <o:p></o:p> ;-)<o:p></o:p>  <o:p></o:p> ~Kendall Ross Bean<o:p></o:p> <o:p> </o:p> <div class=MsoNormal align=center style='text-align:center'> <hr size=2 width="100%" align=center> </div> From: Jim Busby [mailto:jim_busby@byu.edu] Sent: Friday, July 25, 2008 2:34 PM To: College and University Technicians Subject: [CAUT] Barbie tuner<o:p></o:p> List,<o:p></o:p> <o:p> </o:p> I won’t name the fellow, but at the International Double Reed Society conference here at BYU there is this “oboist” who is running around with this tiny guitar tuner complaining that all the instruments are off. He confronted me before one of his performances saying that the pitch of the Shigeru was not A440 but was A442. He said the Hamburg D was also A442 (Was supposed to be at A443). I told him I was confident the pitch was where it was supposed to be on both instruments and that maybe his small tuner was off. BAD thing to say! Boy was he mad! After his performance, when most the people were gone, the head honcho watched me measure the pianos. Less than 4/10ths of one cent off… (Dang! Will I ever learn to keep my pitch dead on?)<o:p></o:p> <o:p> </o:p> Funny, but almost all his high notes were extremely flat. Or maybe I’m just dreaming…<o:p></o:p> <o:p> </o:p> Jim Busby<o:p></o:p> <o:p> </o:p> p.s. Other than this unfortunate experience everyone else is very nice and complimentary. <o:p></o:p> </blockquote> </div> </body> </html>