Dan, <div><br> </div> <div>Thanks muchly. I will try all you have suggested.</div> <div><br> </div> <div>Alan<br> <br> <br> -----Original Message-----<br> From: Dan Reed <pianoarts@tx.rr.com><br> To: College and University Technicians <caut@ptg.org><br> Sent: Sat, 26 Jul 2008 1:12 pm<br> Subject: Re: [CAUT] Puzzler: Yamaha G7 clicks<br> <br> <div id="AOLMsgPart_2_4485ecf3-07c2-481d-8db5-ebc712126803" style="margin: 0px;font-family: Tahoma, Verdana, Arial, Sans-Serif;font-size: 12px;color: #000;background-color: #fff;"> <pre style="font-size: 9pt;"><tt>Hey Alan, Here are some of the tests I use to isolate the culprit.... Duplicating the noise with the action out of the cavity is the challange....The noise is like the sound of a horse hoove clopping on cobblestone. The sound It is very similar to hard Capstan contact felt...(so, possiabily the resonance is coming from the vibrating Maple whippen?) Test #1: Holding the hammer up a little higher than 'at rest' position, flick / knock the whippen against the knuckle with one finger, while holding the key from moving..... Note: if you lift the hammer too high, the hard spot on the knuckle will be missed.... Test #2: You can also drop the hammer (knuckle) onto the whippen ...Again, It is necessary to hold the key down, to keep the whippen from lifting. The amount of pressure pushing the key down will make a difference in the sound....if you press the key too far down, the hammer hits the rest cushion... The source of the noise=2 0could be the resonance of the shank.......another contributing possibility to consider in this senerio, is hard capstan contact felt...To test for this, hold the key to keep it still.... get the hammer out of the way, and drop the whippen down on the Capstan.... Why does hard knuckle leather contribute? Probably the same reasons hard hammers transfer resonate impact energy...it happens all at once........ A magic potion... The source of hardness is likely the hard knuckle core right under the leather....How about a little compression (pliers) massage therapy? Consistency will be the trick. Squeezing may change the dimensions of the knuckle a little...But just a little may kill the noise... In addition, I like the effect of the Stainless brush on knuckles...along with a pile of Teflon powder...(Not to be used on Discliver's...screws the light reading function) Come to think of it, brush/ steam the capstan contact felt ...this will slow down the impact on the knuckle.... Dan Dallas On Jul 26, 2008, at 12:15 PM, <a href="mailto:reggaepass@aol.com">reggaepass@aol.com</a> wrote: <excerpt>First, let me say that I have never worked on a Yamaha of this vintage before. The craftsmanship is excellent. It has Schwander wippens. First we thought it was hardening of the jack felt punching. When needling and then replacing that did not solve the problem, we redirected our attention to the repetition lever, brushing, needling, and then replacing the drop screw leather pad ("bumper"). Still no change. We even tried replacing the piece of action cloth under the repetition lever height adjusting screw (Schwander, right?), just in case that had somehow gotten hard enough over the years to make noise when the lever came back up. Nope, not that either. None of the keys were chucking (on a sixty-five year old instrument that has probably never had any major servicing!). I have seen that condition either cause or contribute to this kind of noise before. But if any thing, the balance holes are tight on the key pins. Your last thought wins you bragging rights, Dan. We decided to brush some knuckles. An associateA 0observed that the nap of the leather did not lift as it has on all of the other pianos on which we have brushed knuckles. So we endeavored to replace the knuckle. The original had a core about 1.6 mm thick, whereas all of the replacements we had on hand—Renner, Abel and Tokiwa—have cores that are around 2 mm thick. Also, the original slot was too shallow for any of the replacements. So we used a 2 mm wide file to both widen and deepen the slot. New knuckle installed (used Titebond Trim and Molding glue, which seems to work well), noise gone. Well, as we so often say in the piano world, “One down, eighty-seven to go!” We seem to identified the fix, though I must admit that I'm not sure how it is that a hard knuckle could cause this proble m. (Then again, we humans have appreciated sunrises long before we understood what we were actually witnessing when we saw one.) If anyone knows 1) WHY the hard knuckle leather causes this click on a quick release, or 2) HOW to treat the existing knuckle leather (magic potion, special armadillo comb, etc.), PLEASE do share your insights (hopefully before we file 87 more knuckle slots!). May this save someone else all of the time we spent trouble-shooting. Cheers, Alan Eder -----Original Message----- From: Dan Reed <<<a href="mailto:pianoarts@tx.rr.com">pianoarts@tx.rr.com</a>> To: College and University Technicians <<<a href="mailto:caut@ptg.org">caut@ptg.org</a>> Sent: Fri, 25 Jul 2008 8:57 pm Subject: Re: [CAUT] Puzzler: Yamaha G7 clicks <fixed><bigger>In addition to hard jack stop felt....Some more of the usual suspects.... Hard drop screw felt on the rep lever, snapping back on a quick release, hitting the drop screw..... 'Chucking key...key bouncing on the balance rail on a quick release... Hard knuckle...bouncing on the jack top... Dan Dallas On Jul 25, 2008, at 7:36 PM, <color><param>0000,0000,EEED</param><a href="mailto:reggaepass@aol.com">reggaepass@aol.com</a></color> wrote: <<excerpt>Yes, you read that correctly, this is a Yamaha model G (not C) 7, s/n 3xxxxx. When the key is released slowly, the click isn't noticeable. However, on a quick release, it is annoyin gly prominent. What is the cause? Alan Eder <<fontfami ly><<param>Arial<</param><<x-tad-bigger>The Famous, the Infamous, the Lame - in your browser. <</x-tad-bigger><<color><<param>0000,0000,EEEE<</param><<x-tad-bigger>Get the TMZ Toolbar Now<</x-tad-bigger><</color><<x-tad-bigger>!<</x-tad-bigger><</fontfamily> <</excerpt>= </bigger></fixed> <fontfamily><param>Arial</param><x-tad-bigger>The Famous, the Infamous, the Lame - in your browser. </x-tad-bigger><color><param>0000,0000,EEED</param><x-tad-bigger>Get the TMZ Toolbar Now</x-tad-bigger></color><x-tad-bigger>!</x-tad-bigger></fontfamily> </excerpt>= </tt></pre> </div>  </div> <div id='u8CABD85DB9C3752-12F0-217C' class='aol_ad_footer'><FONT style="color: black; font: normal 10pt ARIAL, SAN-SERIF;"><HR style="MARGIN-TOP: 10px">The Famous, the Infamous, the Lame - in your browser. <A title="http://toolbar.aol.com/tmz/download.html?NCID=aolcmp00050000000014" href="http://toolbar.aol.com/tmz/download.html?NCID=aolcmp00050000000014" target="_blank">Get the TMZ Toolbar Now</A>!</FONT> </div>