<div dir="ltr"><div>Jim, I think we do a disservice to the music community if we allow musicians that are in positions to be teachers, believe that these Barbie tuners prove anything. Teachers that spread hogwash need to be brought to task for it. Like the post on competence showed, it is the people who are supremely confident they know what they doing that are the least likely to have anything right.</div> <div>Just my opinion. Diplomancy shouldn't mean you have to lie. I've been told I am wrong many, many times in my life and I seem to be able to handle it and learn from it. </div> <div> </div> <div>Keith Roberts </div> <div class="gmail_quote">On Sat, Jul 26, 2008 at 8:37 AM, Jim Busby <<a href="mailto:jim_busby@byu.edu">jim_busby@byu.edu</a>> wrote: <blockquote class="gmail_quote" style="PADDING-LEFT: 1ex; MARGIN: 0px 0px 0px 0.8ex; BORDER-LEFT: #ccc 1px solid"> <div lang="EN-US" vlink="purple" link="blue" bgcolor="white"> <div> Thanks Chris. As always, good point and well taken. It just seems that with the given discrepancies (My SATs say one is at A440, one at A443) and his readings say they're both at A442  we both can't be "right".     But, always the diplomat, you're right on. I shoulda just smiled and shut my pie hole.   Regards, Jim   <div> <div style="BORDER-RIGHT: medium none; PADDING-RIGHT: 0in; BORDER-TOP: #b5c4df 1pt solid; PADDING-LEFT: 0in; PADDING-BOTTOM: 0in; BORDER-LEFT: medium none; PADDING-TOP: 3pt; BORDER-BOTTOM: medium none"> From: <a href="mailto:caut-bounces@ptg.org" target="_blank">caut-bounces@ptg.org</a> [mailto:<a href="mailto:caut-bounces@ptg.org" target="_blank">caut-bounces@ptg.org</a>] On Behalf Of Chris Solliday Sent: Saturday, July 26, 2008 7:06 AM To: College and University Technicians Subject: Re: [CAUT] Barbie tuner</div></div>   <div> BTW Jim,</div> <div> I think Knedall Bean has a point here. It reminds me of what my Pappy used to say, "never argue with a fool 'cause the passer-by can't tell who is who." But it's worse, this is an ignorant fool in authority. So smile when you say anything pardner. </div> <div> Also we can sell him a lovely Accu-fork with a dandy oboe tone that is dead-on, anytime, and will ship anywhere in the known Universe.</div> <div> Chris</div> <blockquote style="BORDER-RIGHT: medium none; PADDING-RIGHT: 0in; BORDER-TOP: medium none; PADDING-LEFT: 4pt; PADDING-BOTTOM: 0in; MARGIN: 5pt 0in 5pt 3.75pt; BORDER-LEFT: black 1.5pt solid; PADDING-TOP: 0in; BORDER-BOTTOM: medium none"> <div> ----- Original Message ----- </div> <div> From: <a title="jim_busby@byu.edu" href="mailto:jim_busby@byu.edu" target="_blank">Jim Busby</a> </div> <div> To: <a title="caut@ptg.org" href="mailto:caut@ptg.org" target="_blank">College and University Technicians</a> </div> <div> Sent: Saturday, July 26, 2008 8:38 AM</div> <div> Subject: Re: [CAUT] Barbie tuner</div> <div>  </div> Interesting!   I simply used both the SAT and the Verituner to read A4 as did he with his Barbie toy. I really don't know what his toy reads, nor exactly what both my ETDs read, but what I do know is that both my ETDs read the one piano right on A440 and the other at A443 (Right where I tuned them) and his BT read that BOTH pianos were at A442!  I don't know if partial/inharmonicity can account for that much discrepancy or not.   Or…… Maybe his $25.00 toy is just a piece of crap which should be never see the light of day, and I can suggest where that is  ;-)  (That's my 10 year old ego speaking, from the heart.)   Let's see what  happens today. I've had several performers say they loved the pianos, but as usual, I try to tune according to my best experience/knowledge while trying to take into account that most feedback, good and bad, should be taken with a grain of salt. Sometimes the bad needs a bit more salt!   Regards, Jim   <div> <div style="BORDER-RIGHT: medium none; PADDING-RIGHT: 0in; BORDER-TOP: #b5c4df 1pt solid; PADDING-LEFT: 0in; PADDING-BOTTOM: 0in; BORDER-LEFT: medium none; PADDING-TOP: 3pt; BORDER-BOTTOM: medium none"> From: <a href="mailto:caut-bounces@ptg.org" target="_blank">caut-bounces@ptg.org</a> [mailto:<a href="mailto:caut-bounces@ptg.org" target="_blank">caut-bounces@ptg.org</a>] On Behalf Of Kendall Ross Bean Sent: Friday, July 25, 2008 9:58 PM To: 'College and University Technicians' Subject: Re: [CAUT] Barbie tuner</div></div>   Jim~   I just had an inspiration!   You could both be right! (-now don't lose me here...this is important) :   Which partial was the oboe player listening to? And you! Which partial were you tuning to? (Uh huh, I thought so!)   You see! It IS possible. It's spelled I..N..H..A..R..M..O..N..I...C...I...T...Y...   Did you know that oboe tone is closest to a pure sine wave? And that pure sine waves are most always perceived as flat? (Oh yes, -most 'specially by piano tooners)   Just go read Harvey Fletcher.   ;-)   ~Kendall Ross Bean   <div style="TEXT-ALIGN: center" align="center"> <hr align="center" width="100%" size="2"> </div> From: Jim Busby [mailto:<a href="mailto:jim_busby@byu.edu" target="_blank">jim_busby@byu.edu</a>] Sent: Friday, July 25, 2008 2:34 PM To: College and University Technicians Subject: [CAUT] Barbie tuner List,   I won't name the fellow, but at the International Double Reed Society conference here at BYU there is this "oboist" who is running around with this tiny guitar tuner complaining that all the instruments are off. He confronted me before one of his performances saying that the pitch of the Shigeru was not A440 but was A442. He said the Hamburg D was also A442 (Was supposed to be at A443). I told him I was confident the pitch was where it was supposed to be on both instruments and that maybe his small tuner was off. BAD thing to say! Boy was he mad! After his performance, when most the people were gone, the head honcho watched me measure the pianos. Less than 4/10ths of one cent off… (Dang! Will I ever learn to keep my pitch dead on?)   Funny, but almost all his high notes were extremely flat. Or maybe I'm just dreaming…   Jim Busby   p.s. Other than this unfortunate experience everyone else is very nice and complimentary. </blockquote></div></div></blockquote></div> </div>