And a good thought it is. I forgot to mention in my blow-by-blow that we checked for knuckle looseness as well. Thanks for catching that. <div><br> </div> <div>Alan<br> <br> <br> -----Original Message-----<br> From: Jeannie Grassi <jcgrassi@earthlink.net><br> To: 'College and University Technicians' <caut@ptg.org><br> Sent: Sat, 26 Jul 2008 10:42 am<br> Subject: Re: [CAUT] Puzzler: Yamaha G7 clicks<br> <br> <div id="AOLMsgPart_2_8c5e3020-b6f5-4825-86e3-fa67d876fed4"> <div class="Section1"> <div class="MsoNormal"><font size="2" color="navy" face="Arial"><span style="font-size: 10.0pt;font-family:Arial;color:navy">Alan,</span></font></div> <div class="MsoNormal"><font size="2" color="navy" face="Arial"><span style="font-size: 10.0pt;font-family:Arial;color:navy">Could it have been a loose knuckle glue joint rather than the leather itself. I’ve encountered that as a source of noise in the past. So that when you replaced and reglued it, of course the sound went away. Just a thought.</span></font></div> <div class="MsoNormal"><font size="2" color="navy" face="Arial"><span style="font-size: 10.0pt;font-family:Arial;color:navy">jeannie</span></font></div> <div class="MsoNormal"><font size="2" color="navy" face="Arial"><span style="font-size: 10.0pt;font-family:Arial;color:navy"> </span></font></div> <div> <div class="MsoNormal" align="center" style="text-align:center"><font size="3" face="Times New Roman"><span style="font-size:12.0pt"> <hr size="2" width="100%" align="center"> </span></font></div> <div class="MsoNormal"><b><font size="2" face="Tahoma"><span style="font-size:10.0pt; font-family:Tahoma;font-weight:bold">From:</span></font></b><font size="2" face="Tahoma"><span style="font-size:10.0pt;font-family:Tahoma"> <a href="mailto:caut-bounces@ptg.org">caut-bounces@ptg.org</a> [<a href="mailto:caut-bounces@ptg.org?">mailto:caut-bounces@ptg.org</a>] <b><span style="font-weight:bold">On Behalf Of </span></b><a href="mailto:reggaepass@aol.com">reggaepass@aol.com</a><br> <b><span style="font-weight:bold">Sent:</span></b> Saturday, July 26, 2008 10:15 AM<br> <b><span style="font-weight:bold">To:</span></b> <a href="mailto:caut@ptg.org">caut@ptg.org</a><br> <b><span style="font-weight:bold">Subject:</span></b> Re: [CAUT] Puzzler: Yamaha G7 clicks</span></font></div> </div> <div class="MsoNormal"><font size="3" face="Times New Roman"><span style="font-size: 12.0pt"> </span></font></div> <div> <div class="MsoNormal"><font size="3" face="Times New Roman"><span style="font-size: 12.0pt">First, let me say that I have never worked on a Yamaha of this vintage before. The craftsmanship is excellent. It has Schwander wippens. First we thought it was hardening of the jack felt punching.<span> </span>When needling and then replacing that did not solve the problem, we redirected our attention to the repetition lever, brushing, needling, and then replacing the drop screw leather pad ("bumper"). Still no change. We even tried replacing the piece of action cloth under the repetition lever height adjusting screw (Schwander, right?), just in case that had somehow gotten hard enough over the years to make noise when the lever came back up. Nope, not that either.</span></font></div> </div> <div> <div class="MsoNormal"><font size="3" face="Times New Roman"><span style="font-size: 12.0pt"> </span></font></div> </div> <div> <div class="MsoNormal"><font size="3" face="Times New Roman"><span style="font-size: 12.0pt">None of the keys were chucking (on a sixty-five year old instrument that has probably never had any major servicing!). I have seen that condition either cause or contribute to this kind of noise before. But if any thing, the balance holes are tight on the key pins.</span></font></div> </div> <div> <div class="MsoNormal"><font size="3" face="Times New Roman"><span style="font-size: 12.0pt"> </span></font></div> </div> <div> <div class="MsoNormal"><font size="3" face="Times New Roman"><span style="font-size: 12.0pt">Your last thought wins you bragging rights, Dan. We decided to brush some knuckles. An associateA 0observed that the nap of the leather did not lift as it has on all of the other pianos on which we have brushed knuckles. So we endeavored to replace the knuckle. The original had a core about 1.6 mm thick, whereas all of the replacements we had on hand—Renner, Abel and Tokiwa—have cores that are around 2 mm thick. Also, the original slot was too shallow for any of the replacements. So we used a 2 mm wide file to both widen and deepen the slot. New knuckle installed (used Titebo nd Trim and Molding glue, which seems to work well), noise gone. Well, as we so often say in the piano world, “One down, eighty-seven to go!” </span></font></div> </div> <div> <div class="MsoNormal"><font size="3" face="Times New Roman"><span style="font-size: 12.0pt"> </span></font></div> </div> <div> <div class="MsoNormal"><font size="3" face="Times New Roman"><span style="font-size: 12.0pt">We seem to identified the fix, though I must admit that I'm not sure how it is that a hard knuckle could cause this problem. (Then again, we humans have appreciated sunrises long before we understood what we were actually witnessing when we saw one.) If anyone knows 1) WHY the hard knuckle leather causes this click on a quick release, or 2) HOW to treat the existing knuckle leather (magic potion, special armadillo comb, etc.), PLEASE do share your insights (hopefully before we file 87 more knuckle slots!).</span></font></div> </div> <div class="MsoNormal"><font size="3" face="Times New Roman"><span style="font-size: 12.0pt"> </span></font></div> <div> <div class="MsoNormal"><font size="3" face="Times New Roman"><span style="font-size: 12.0pt">May this save someone else all of the time we spent trouble-shooting.</span></font></div> </div> <div> <div class="MsoNormal"><font size="3" face="Times New Roman"><span style="font-size: 12.0pt"> </span></font></div> </div> <div> <div class="MsoNormal"><font size="3" face="Times New Roman"><span style="font-size : 12.0pt">Cheers,</span></font></div> </div> <div> <div class="MsoNormal"><font size="3" face="Times New Roman"><span style="font-size: 12.0pt"> </span></font></div> </div> <div> <div class="MsoNormal"><font size="3" face="Times New Roman"><span style="font-size: 12.0pt">Alan Eder</span></font></div> </div> <div> <div class="MsoNormal"><font size="3" face="Times New Roman"><span style="font-size: 12.0pt"> </span></font></div> </div> <div> <div class="MsoNormal"><font size="3" face="Times New Roman"><span style="font-size: 12.0pt"> </span></font></div> </div> <div class="MsoNormal" style="margin-bottom:12.0pt"><font size="3" face="Times New Roman"><span style="font-size:12.0pt"><br> <br> -----Original Message-----<br> From: Dan Reed <<a href="mailto:pianoarts@tx.rr.com">pianoarts@tx.rr.com</a>><br> To: College and University Technicians <<a href="mailto:caut@ptg.org">caut@ptg.org</a>><br> Sent: Fri, 25 Jul 2008 8:57 pm<br> Subject: Re: [CAUT] Puzzler: Yamaha G7 clicks</span></font></div> <div id="AOLMsgPart_2_36ba8434-befc-4f16-bcf3-440a3ae4f635"><pre style="background:white"><tt><font size="2" color="black" face="Courier New"><span style="font-size:10.0pt;color:black">In addition to hard jack stop felt....Some more of the usual</span></font></tt></pre><pre style="background:white"><tt><font size="2" color="black" face="Courier New"><span style="font-size:10.0pt;color:black">suspects....</span></font></tt></pre><pre style="background:white"><tt><font size="2" color="black" face="Courier New"><span style="font-size:10.0pt;color:black"> </span></font></tt></pre><pre style ="background:white"><tt><font size="2" color="black" face="Courier New"><span style="font-size:10.0pt;color:black"> </span></font></tt></pre><pre style="background:white"><tt><font size="2" color="black" face="Courier New"><span style="font-size:10.0pt;color:black"> </span></font></tt></pre><pre style="background:white"><tt><font size="2" color="black" face="Courier New"><span style="font-size:10.0pt;color:black">Hard drop screw felt on the rep lever, snapping back on a quick</span></font></tt></pre><pre style="background:white"><tt><font size="2" color="black" face="Courier New"><span style="font-size:10.0pt;color:black">release, hitting the drop screw.....</span></font></tt></pre><pre style="background:white"><tt><font size="2" color="black" face="Courier New"><span style="font-size:10.0pt;color:black"> </span></font></tt></pre><pre style="background:white"><tt><font size="2" color="black" face="Courier New"><span style="font-size:10.0pt;color:black"> </span></font></tt></pre><pre style="background:white"><tt><font size="2" color="black" face="Courier New"><span style="font-size:10.0pt;color:black">'Chucking key...key bouncing on the balance rail on a quick release...</span></font></tt></pre><pre style="background:white"><tt><font size="2" color="black" face="Courier New"><span style="font-size:10.0pt;color:black"> </span></font></tt></pre><pre style="background:white"><tt><font size="2" color="black" face="Courier New"><span style="font-size:10.0pt;color:black"> </span></font></tt></pre><pre style="background:white"><tt><font size="2" color="black" face="Courier New"><span style="font-size:10.0pt;color:black">Hard knuckle...bouncing on the jack top...</span></font></tt></pre><pre style="background:whi te"><tt><font size="2" color="black" face="Courier New"><span style="font-size:10.0pt;color:black"> </span></font></tt></pre><pre style="background:white"><tt><font size="2" color="black" face="Courier New"><span style="font-size:10.0pt;color:black"> </span></font></tt></pre><pre style="background:white"><tt><font size="2" color="black" face="Courier New"><span style="font-size:10.0pt;color:black">Dan</span></font></tt></pre><pre style="background:white"><tt><font size="2" color="black" face="Courier New"><span style="font-size:10.0pt;color:black"> </span></font></tt></pre><pre style="background:white"><tt><font size="2" color="black" face="Courier New"><span style="font-size:10.0pt;color:black"> </span></font></tt></pre><pre style="background:white"><tt><font size="2" color="black" face="Courier New"><span style="font-size:10.0pt; color:black">Dallas</span></font></tt><tt><font color="black" face="Courier New"><span style="color:black"></span></font></tt></pre><pre style="background:white"><tt><font size="2" color="black" face="Courier New"><span style="font-size:10.0pt;color:black"> </span></font></tt></pre><pre style="background:white"><tt><font size="2" color="black" face="Courier New"><span style="font-size:10.0pt;color:black"> </span></font></tt></pre><pre style="background:white"><tt><font size="2" color="black" face="Courier New"><span style="font-size:10.0pt;color:black"> </span></font></tt></pre><pre style="background:white"><tt><font size="2" color="black" face="Courier New"><span style="font-size:10.0pt;color:black">On Jul 25, 2008, at 7:36 PM, <a href="mailto:reggaepass@aol.com">reggaepass@aol.com</a> wrote:</span></font></tt></pre><pre style="background:white"><tt><font size="2" color="black" face ="Courier New"><span style="font-size:10.0pt;color:black"> </span></font></tt></pre><pre style="background:white"><tt><font size="2" color="black" face="Courier New"><span style="font-size:10.0pt;color:black"> </span></font></tt></pre><pre style="background:white"><tt><font size="2" color="black" face="Courier New"><span style="font-size:10.0pt;color:black"><excerpt>Yes, you read that correctly, this is a Yamaha model G (not</span></font></tt></pre><pre style="background:white"><tt><font size="2" color="black" face="Courier New"><span style="font-size:10.0pt;color:black">C) 7, s/n 3xxxxx. When the key is released slowly, the click isn't</span></font></tt></pre><pre style="background:white"><tt><font size="2" color="black" face="Courier New"><span style="font-size:10.0pt;color:black">noticeable. However, on a quick release, it is annoyingly prominent.</span></font></tt></pre><pre style="background:white"><tt><font size="2" color="black" face="Courier New"><span style="font-size:10.0pt;color:black"> What is the cause?</span></font></tt></pre><pre style="background:white"><tt><font size="2" color="black" face="Courier New"><span style="font-size:10.0pt;color:black"> </span></font></tt></pre><pre style="background:white"><tt><font size="2" color="black" face="Courier New"><span style="font-size:10.0pt;color:black"> </span></font></tt></pre><pre style="background:white"><tt><font size="2" color="black" face="Courier New"><span style="font-size:10.0pt;color:black">Alan Eder</span></font></tt></pre><pre style="background:white"><tt><font size="2" color="black" face="Courier New"><span style="font-size:10.0pt;color:black"> </span></font></tt></pre><pre style="background:white"><tt><font size="2" color="black" face="Courier New"><span style="font-size:10.0pt;color:black"> </span></font></tt></pre><pre style="background:white"><tt><font size="2" color="black" face="Courier New"><span style="font-size:10.0pt;color:black"> </span></font></tt></pre><pre style="background:white"><tt><font size="2" color="black" face="Courier New"><span style="font-size:10.0pt;color:black"><fontfami</span></font></tt></pre><pre style="background:white"><tt><font size="2" color="black" face="Courier New"><span style="font-size:10.0pt;color:black">ly><param>Arial</param><x-tad-bigger>The Famous, the</span></font></tt></pre><pre style="background:white"><tt><font size="2" color="black" face="Courier New"><span style="font-size:10.0pt;color:black">Infamous, the Lame - in your browser.</span></font></tt></pre><pre style="background:white"><tt><font size="2" color="black" face="Courier New"><span style="font-size:10.0pt;color:black"></x-tad-bigger><color><param>0000,0000,EEEE</param><x-tad-bigger>Get</span></font></tt></pre><pre style="background:white"><tt><font size="2" color="black" face="Courier New"><span style="font-size:10.0pt;color:black">the TMZ Toolbar</span></font></tt></pre><pre style="background:white"><tt><font size="2" color="black" face="Courier New"><span style="font-size:10.0pt;color:black">Now</x-tad-bigger></color><x-tad-bigger>!</x-tad-bigger></fontfamily> </span></font></tt></pre><pre style="background:white"><tt><font size="2" color="black" face="Courier New"><span style="font-size:10.0pt;color:black"></excerpt>=</span></font></tt></pre></div> <font size="2" color="black" face="Arial"><span style="font-size:10.0pt;font-family: Arial;color:black"></span></font> <div id="u8CABD5A4613640C-93C-16B3"> <di v class="MsoNormal" align="center" style="margin-top:7.5pt;text-align:center"><font size="2" color="black" face="Arial"><span style="font-size:10.0pt;font-family:Arial; color:black"> <hr size="2" width="100%" align="center"> </span></font></div> <div class="MsoNormal" style="margin-top:7.5pt"><font size="2" color="black" face="Arial"><span style="font-size:10.0pt;font-family:Arial;color:black">The Famous, the Infamous, the Lame - in your browser. <a target="_blank" href="http://toolbar.aol.com/tmz/download.html?NCID=aolcmp00050000000014" title="http://toolbar.aol.com/tmz/download.html?NCID=aolcmp00050000000014">Get the TMZ Toolbar Now</a>!</span></font> </div> </div> </div> </div>  </div> <div id='u8CABD6AF65CC229-13F4-1CAB' class='aol_ad_footer'><FONT style="color: black; font: normal 10pt ARIAL, SAN-SERIF;"><HR style="MARGIN-TOP: 10px">The Famous, the Infamous, the Lame - in your browser. <A title="http://toolbar.aol.com/tmz/download.html?NCID=aolcmp00050000000014" href="http://toolbar.aol.com/tmz/download.html?NCID=aolcmp00050000000014" target="_blank">Get the TMZ Toolbar Now</A>!</FONT> </div>