<div dir="ltr"><div>Very good point. It is very difficult to determine what was there originally and many times it is necessary to use the best available, which is not always the same as original. However, the thing to do is find the best height felt FIRST!!!!</div> <div>I had problems with hammer alignment on some S&S until I realized how often the felt on the left key frame block was not the same. With all new shanks and whips hung on the stack, I would use the dampers levers to tell me where the original spot for the frame was. Amazing how everything lines up better.</div> <div>Keith Roberts </div> <div class="gmail_quote">On Wed, Sep 3, 2008 at 8:55 PM, David Love <<a href="mailto:davidlovepianos@comcast.net">davidlovepianos@comcast.net</a>> wrote: <blockquote class="gmail_quote" style="PADDING-LEFT: 1ex; MARGIN: 0px 0px 0px 0.8ex; BORDER-LEFT: #ccc 1px solid"> <div lang="EN-US" vlink="blue" link="blue"> <div> Maybe.  When I install Renner underlevers I always have to cut the wire as the post is higher, sostenuti are adjustable and upstop rails can be cut to the proper dimension.  My comment had more to do with the tendency to automatically look at lowering the tray (which can have its own problems for example if it bottoms out on the dags) rather than raising the key end felt.  We tend to buy key end felt that says "Steinway Key End Felt" which comes at a set thickness but it may be that the thickness is totally inappropriate for that action.  We then jump through hoops lowering this that or the other when all we really needed to do was select the proper thickness of key end felt to begin with.  The goal is to get the bottom of the nose of the lever on the line between the balance rail pin at the bottom of the key and the damper lever flange when the key is depressed.  That will level the lever most of the time and reduce friction.  That goal may be achieved by lowering the tray or selecting the proper key end felt thickness (or both).  The proper thickness of the key end felt is something that should be examined in this situation.     <div class="Ih2E3d">     <div> David Love <a href="mailto:davidlovepianos@comcast.net" target="_blank">davidlovepianos@comcast.net</a> <a href="http://www.davidlovepianos.com/" target="_blank">www.davidlovepianos.com</a> </div></div> <div> <div></div> <div class="Wj3C7c"> -----Original Message----- From: <a href="mailto:caut-bounces@ptg.org" target="_blank">caut-bounces@ptg.org</a> [mailto:<a href="mailto:caut-bounces@ptg.org" target="_blank">caut-bounces@ptg.org</a>] On Behalf Of Keith Roberts Sent: Wednesday, September 03, 2008 10:03 AM To: College and University Technicians Subject: Re: [CAUT] Renner back action   <div> <div> I would think it would affect the sos adjustment, you would have to cut the wires, and the up stop rail might not have enough adjustment. The height of the lever has to be set according to the tab height. </div> <div> Keith Roberts</div> <div> On Wed, Sep 3, 2008 at 7:30 AM, David Love <<a href="mailto:davidlovepianos@comcast.net" target="_blank">davidlovepianos@comcast.net</a>> wrote: All these things are good but if the pivot is too high why not just put on thicker key end felt?  Also, do you find that in moving the pivot pin forward to be on the same plane as the flange center that you often need to install a second tray spring? David Love <a href="mailto:davidlovepianos@comcast.net" target="_blank">davidlovepianos@comcast.net</a> <a href="http://www.davidlovepianos.com/" target="_blank">www.davidlovepianos.com</a> <div> <div> -----Original Message----- From: <a href="mailto:caut-bounces@ptg.org" target="_blank">caut-bounces@ptg.org</a> [mailto:<a href="mailto:caut-bounces@ptg.org" target="_blank">caut-bounces@ptg.org</a>] On Behalf Of Jon Page Sent: Wednesday, September 03, 2008 5:17 AM To: <a href="mailto:caut@ptg.org" target="_blank">caut@ptg.org</a> Subject: [CAUT] Renner back action When reworking the back action I am not concerned about the Magic Line. My concern lies with the elevation of the pivot, meaning that I want the key to lift the underlever parallel to the key bed. The slots worn in the key end felt are caused by the underlever being at too much of a downwards angle at rest. Meaning that the pivot is too high. This scrubbing is friction. Lifting beyond parallel is also counter productive because the underlever would scrub against the rear end of the lifter felt. I also move the pivot to be in line with the flange centers. Bearing in mind the fore and aft placement of the top flange. Recently, I chiseled off the end blocks on the tray and glued in a spacer underneath them to get a good area for the new pin location. That combined with replacing the pitman with a section of pedal rod made the pedal depression easier (was too hard). And now there is no discrepancy regarding the upstop rail between key lift and pedal lift. When installing new flanges and end blocks, hold a flange and block in place on a scrap piece of rail and tap the center with a hammer, this will index the tray pivot hole. For the support block holes, measure the top flange center distance from the belly rail. This is easily done on the bench. Measure the distance from the top flange center to the lever flange center. If the t/f/c is 6" and the center spread is 3.5", the new pivot is drilled 2.5" from the belly. This maintains the position of the t/f. And if the key lifts to 1 3/4", bottom of lever to flange center is 3/8", that makes the new pivot height 2 1/8".    So, 2.5" out, 2 1/8" up. Simple. It makes for a nicer feel to the touch. Sometimes I make new pivot support blocks but usually simply place a spacer behind them to get surface area for the new forward pin location. If the new location is too close to the old hole, I'll drill out a 1/4" plug from the lower corner of the block and plug the old hole (how's that for recycling). To ascertain to what degree, if any, dampers are scrubbing; measure the height of the end felt with the key depressed. Lift the underlever to that height and look at its angle with the keybed. If it is still at a downwards angle then it is not optimum. More angle means more friction. -- Regards, Jon Page </div></div></div>  </div></div></div></div></div></blockquote></div> </div>