<!DOCTYPE HTML PUBLIC "-//W3C//DTD HTML 4.0 Transitional//EN"> <html> <head> <META HTTP-EQUIV="Content-Type" CONTENT="text/html; charset=iso-8859-1"> <meta name=Generator content="Microsoft Word 10 (filtered)"> <style>  </style> </head> <body bgcolor=white lang=EN-US link=blue vlink=purple style='WORD-WRAP: break-word; -webkit-nbsp-mode: space;-webkit-line-break: after-white-space'> <div class=Section1> <p class=MsoNormal><font size=2 color=navy face=Arial><span style='font-size: 10.0pt;font-family:Arial;color:navy'>Our experiences, criteria and observations of some underlying realities are clearly different. I suppose that’s why Mr. Ilvedsen posted the question. </span></font></p> <p class=MsoNormal><font size=2 color=navy face=Arial><span style='font-size: 10.0pt;font-family:Arial;color:navy'> </span></font></p> <div> <p><font size=2 color=navy face="Times New Roman"><span style='font-size:10.0pt; color:navy'>David</span></font><font size=2 color=navy><span style='font-size:10.0pt;color:navy'> Love</span></font><font size=2 color=navy><span style='font-size:10.0pt;color:navy'><br> davidlovepianos@comcast.net<br> www.davidlovepianos.com</span></font><font color=navy><span style='color:navy'> </span></font></p> </div> <p class=MsoNormal style='margin-left:.5in'><font size=2 face=Tahoma><span style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:Tahoma'>-----Original Message-----<br> <b><span style='font-weight:bold'>From:</span></b> caut-bounces@ptg.org [mailto:caut-bounces@ptg.org] <b><span style='font-weight:bold'>On Behalf Of </span></b>Jeff Tanner<br> <b><span style='font-weight:bold'>Sent:</span></b> Saturday, September 06, 2008 2:06 PM<br> <b><span style='font-weight:bold'>To:</span></b> </span></font><font size=2 face=Tahoma><span style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:Tahoma'>College and University Technicians</span></font><font size=2 face=Tahoma><span style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:Tahoma'><br> <b><span style='font-weight:bold'>Subject:</span></b> Re: [CAUT] uprights</span></font></p> <p class=MsoNormal style='margin-left:.5in'><font size=3 face="Times New Roman"><span style='font-size:12.0pt'> </span></font></p> <div> <blockquote style='border:none;border-left:solid black 1.5pt;padding:0in 0in 0in 4.0pt; margin-left:3.75pt;margin-top:5.0pt;margin-right:0in;margin-bottom:5.0pt'> <div> <p class=MsoNormal style='margin-left:.5in'><font size=2 face=Arial><span style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:Arial'>----- Original Message ----- </span></font></p> </div> <div style='font-color:black'> <p class=MsoNormal style='margin-left:.5in;background:#E4E4E4'><b><font size=2 face=Arial><span style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:Arial;font-weight:bold'>From:</span></font></b><font size=2 face=Arial><span style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:Arial'> <a href="" title="davidlovepianos@comcast.net">David Love</a> </span></font></p> </div> <div> <p class=MsoNormal style='margin-left:.5in'><b><font size=2 face=Arial><span style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:Arial;font-weight:bold'>To:</span></font></b><font size=2 face=Arial><span style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:Arial'> <a href="" title="caut@ptg.org">'College and University Technicians'</a> </span></font></p> </div> <div> <p class=MsoNormal style='margin-left:.5in'><b><font size=2 face=Arial><span style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:Arial;font-weight:bold'>Sent:</span></font></b><font size=2 face=Arial><span style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:Arial'> Saturday, September 06, 2008 3:45 PM</span></font></p> </div> <div> <p class=MsoNormal style='margin-left:.5in'><b><font size=2 face=Arial><span style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:Arial;font-weight:bold'>Subject:</span></font></b><font size=2 face=Arial><span style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:Arial'> Re: [CAUT] uprights</span></font></p> </div> <div> <p class=MsoNormal style='margin-left:.5in'><font size=2 face=Arial><span style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:Arial'> </span></font></p> </div> <p class=MsoNormal style='margin-left:.5in'><font size=2 color=navy face=Arial><span style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:Arial;color:navy'>Well, I didn’t say that exactly, although I think the U5 is a better made piano with higher manufacturing standards than the K52 at present.  Easier to service in an institutional setting where techs are often pressed for time and working for discounted rates is a consideration, in my view.  I would not want to be tuning pianos 4-5 times a year that render poorly for ½ my normal rate—call me selfish.  Poor rendering, btw, is one aspect of quality.  Steinway uprights (and Bostons for that matter) have that problem.  Moreover, I don’t see a Steinway K52 outlasting a U5 and when time comes for replacing parts, they are easier, faster and less expensive to replace on a U5 as manufacturing is more consistent and service support is better.   When you put that along side the price differential I think that choice would be fairly easy.    </span></font></p> </blockquote> </div> <div> <p class=MsoNormal style='margin-left:.5in'><font size=2 face=Arial><span style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:Arial'>I have to admit being completely unfamiliar with the U5.  In fact, I was unaware until today that it existed.  I've only seen the U1s, U3s, P-whatevers and T-series Yamahas.  However, when I see 50 and 60 and 100 year old Yamahas that have held up as well as the 50, 60 and 100 year old Steinway verticals I've cared for over the years, I'll be convinced.  But I've seen too many Yamaha smiling keybeds, and real problems with 30 year old pianos to allow me to think it possible.  Whatever that material is the Yamaha cabinet is made of seems to start "failing" after a while.  Rendering with 30 year old Yamahas is much worse in my experience than rendering with 50 year old Steinway verticals.  I really struggle with tuning older Yamaha P verticals, and fear breaking a bass string with every nudge of the tuning hammer.  That's just when the Steinways are getting broken in good.  I've rarely needed to replace a string on a 45/1098.</span></font></p> </div> <div> <p class=MsoNormal style='margin-left:.5in'><font size=3 face="Times New Roman"><span style='font-size:12.0pt'> </span></font></p> </div> <div> <p class=MsoNormal style='margin-left:.5in'><font size=2 face=Arial><span style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:Arial'>You have to approach the Steinway tuning differently than you do the Yamaha.  You put what amounts to a time limit on yourself, get the tuning close, and close it up.  You don't expect the Steinway to sound like the muffled, clinically pure Yamaha, and as long as your octaves and unisons are stable, its fine.  It has a lot more forgiveness for dirty tuning than does the Yamaha, which will sound perfectly horrid when it starts coming out of tune.  In my opinion, the Yamaha requires a finer tuning to sound good than does the Steinway.</span></font></p> </div> <div> <p class=MsoNormal style='margin-left:.5in'><font size=3 face="Times New Roman"><span style='font-size:12.0pt'> </span></font></p> </div> <div> <p class=MsoNormal style='margin-left:.5in'><font size=2 face=Arial><span style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:Arial'>When I was new to this craft, I really wanted to like the Yamaha/Kawai (or Boston, for that matter) products.  I am from a frugal family, which switched to Japanese autos in the 1980s and wanted to believe that the Japanese could build something equally valuable for less than 1/2 the money.  But what I've seen happen in university practice rooms, churches and homes alike have sold me on the life expectancy of the Steinway product. Later, I learned that genuinely comparable Japanese pianos actually cost prohibitively more than the Steinway. That's a tough sale here.  Likewise, we've switched back to American autos for similar reasons (when I had to pay $1200 to replace a headgasket, and later nearly $500 for a starter plus nearly $200 for installation for a Japanese vehicle, that got my attention. I used to pay $40 for the starter and install it myself in 30 minutes on American cars.)</span></font></p> </div> <div> <p class=MsoNormal style='margin-left:.5in'><font size=3 face="Times New Roman"><span style='font-size:12.0pt'> </span></font></p> </div> <div> <p class=MsoNormal style='margin-left:.5in'><font size=2 face=Arial><span style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:Arial'>With all due respect, "Easier to service in an institutional setting where techs are often pressed for time and working for discounted rates is a consideration" should not be a consideration in my view.  The value the institution gets for its invested dollars over the long term is the primary goal, and a skilled technician should be capable of tuning pianos that require more than a beginner's skill.  The discounted rate should reflect little more than the difference in the number of tunings that can be achieved without having to drive from one to the next in my view.  That shouldn't mean 1/2 a normal rate.  If it is, let the price-beater tooner have it, thinks me, and see if he can tune the Steinways.  </span></font></p> </div> <div> <p class=MsoNormal style='margin-left:.5in'><font size=3 face="Times New Roman"><span style='font-size:12.0pt'> </span></font></p> </div> <div> <p class=MsoNormal style='margin-left:.5in'><font size=2 face=Arial><span style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:Arial'>It isn't our responsibility to compensate for an institution's chronic underfunding of maintenance.  Else we become enablers to chronic mismanagement.  It is our responsibility to build a repertoire of skills, make them available to the institution, and if they don't want to pay a higher price for a higher repertoire of skills, let them get what they are willing to pay for.</span></font></p> </div> <div> <p class=MsoNormal style='margin-left:.5in'><font size=3 face="Times New Roman"><span style='font-size:12.0pt'> </span></font></p> </div> <div> <p class=MsoNormal style='margin-left:.5in'><font size=2 face=Arial><span style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:Arial'>And, with respect to replacing parts on the Yamaha as being easier and less expensive, I have little experience, except hearsay - posts to this list - with replacing parts on Yamahas.  And that hearsay is that Yamaha hammers are 150% of the cost of Steinway hammers.  I don't know for myself, but that is my recollection of posts from some time back.  I can only assume that is not uncommon with Yamaha pricing?  And we don't know whether Yamaha parts in 100 years will be available for the pianos made today.  And neither do we know if a Yamaha made today will be worth spending any money on parts when it comes that time.  The more commonly sold instruments are not the S4, S6, or CFIIIS(is that the current model?), so it is impossible to compare apples to apples.</span></font></p> </div> <div> <p class=MsoNormal style='margin-left:.5in'><font size=3 face="Times New Roman"><span style='font-size:12.0pt'> </span></font></p> </div> <div> <p class=MsoNormal style='margin-left:.5in'><font size=2 face=Arial><span style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:Arial'>Respectfully,</span></font></p> </div> <div> <p class=MsoNormal style='margin-left:.5in'><font size=2 face=Arial><span style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:Arial'>Jeff</span></font></p> </div> </div> </body> </html>