Jim, That's clearly not enough $! (it's more than me tho, but I've only been here 2 years)  Don't you guys have hundreds of pianos?  How many per tech?  Do you have full tuition for your kids? I know Oberlin does and some of them have several kids!  I would be much happier with my salary if UNL could offer at least that.  I know my dream is just that and the average Joe has no clue what a good tuning is, but performers do, especially at the university level which is one reason why we should be so much more compensated for our talents.  If universities require so much experience with concert level tech ability, then they should cough up the bucks and pay for it.  Their reputation is on the line. There's got to be a way to open these folks eyes to see what they have to lose, but I don't know what it is..... Hang in there and get out of debt!! I like listening to Dave Ramsey on the radio. He's got great strategies... Still in debt myself! Paul <table width=100%> <tr valign=top> <td width=40%>Jim Busby <jim_busby@byu.edu> Sent by: caut-bounces@ptg.org 09/08/2008 04:20 PM <table border> <tr valign=top> <td bgcolor=white> <div align=center>Please respond to College and University Technicians <caut@ptg.org></div></table> <td width=59%> <table width=100%> <tr valign=top> <td> <div align=right>To</div> <td>College and University Technicians <caut@ptg.org> <tr valign=top> <td> <div align=right>cc</div> <td> <tr valign=top> <td> <div align=right>Subject</div> <td>Re: [CAUT] Reasonable job descriptions</table> <table> <tr valign=top> <td> <td></table> </table> List,   Oops! Ok. So now you all know what I make. Don’t tell anyone, ok?   No harm done.  Anyone can comment if you want.   Jim   From: caut-bounces@ptg.org [mailto:caut-bounces@ptg.org] On Behalf Of Jim Busby Sent: Monday, September 08, 2008 1:20 PM To: College and University Technicians Subject: Re: [CAUT] Reasonable job descriptions   Paul,   I’m posting this to you privately because I don’t want it in the “public”. I’m currently at $48K but the benefits package is incredible. They say it’s worth about another 20K. still it’s not enough for me to live on due to some stupid debt I have. Essentially, I have to earn about 1K a month more to maintain my life style (which is modest!) and I still don’t have enough time to do much in the way of personal/family time.   Knowing that, if I were making about 20K more it would be about where I should be, IMO. We all would like to make more, but this is where I am…   Now, in your last paragraph you state that we should stand together. Therein is the problem, as I see it. There are so many technicians (hacks, most) that would jump in here in a heartbeat that I don’t know how we can try to push our way around in the least bit! Our profession seems to be one of about 30% incompetent hacks, about 20% top notch and everyone else somewhere in the middle. But here is the problem; No one (administration) can tell the difference!! At least, not with the middle of the road techs. A colleague of mine goes in an toons the piano and when he S through it’s not top notch. But no one cares! Even some of the best pianists seem to let things go. It’s not too bad in that I think it would clearly pass the RPT test (that says something, doesn’t it?) but it’s a pretty close SAT tuning with some not too wild but out unisons! And he’s a CTE!!   My heart sinks when I see what people think are good tunings. It makes me wonder why I even care sometimes.   Soooo…. What does this have to with the price of rice in China?? I just wonder how we can stick together when only about 1 in 5 are PTG members, and about half of them are green or not soing high level work! What is the key to making a better living here?   I dunno. Sometimes I get frustrated and seeing a post like yours get’s me hoping and wishing for more, but then my pragmatic evil side kicks in and I write rants like this.   Best. Jim   From: caut-bounces@ptg.org [mailto:caut-bounces@ptg.org] On Behalf Of Paul T Williams Sent: Sunday, September 07, 2008 2:15 PM To: College and University Technicians Subject: Re: [CAUT] Reasonable job descriptions   Richard, et.al, I'm with you.  I'll take the catagory IV at $200K. ;>)  (like that'll ever happen)  Kidding aside.  If we can stick together on this issue,  and it has to be ALL of us, maybe we can get the average salary for full time large universities up to 60-70K or 80-90K as that would be far more in-sinc with the supply/demand curve that is currently warped...-not in our favor.  That higher figure seems to be in line with the better-than-average college prof who has the same relative education in their field.  Our field is so specialized, it should actually be more $ for us. Who can do what we do??  Architect's are a dime a dozen, and so on. If the pianos don't work...the university won't work.(school of music speaking) For a good point, our purcussion professor, who is charge of all the student convos. invitied me to come in for the meet and greet introduction to the freshmen.  I was able to tell everyone what I do and to keep all the stuff off the pianos.  He continued after my very short rant as to what I REALLY do for nearly 4-5 minutes!!  What a wonderful thing this was!!  I was not expecting this at all.  He really does appreciate what I do and what the pianos are worth etc,. He told all that I can build a piano from the ground up (a little over-emphasized there, of course)  Out sourcing is still key to all of us.  Time and space wise.  DO IT all all of you!!! It's worth the bucks! It was interesting to see that our UNL chancellor and president were overwhelmingly approved for between 15-30% raises when their salaries are between 200-350K/year.  Just the raise for the president is nearly  what I make in a year!!  And yet they say it's to keep up with other large universities in the country.  Yet, WE all stay at nearly the same, other than the very pretigious private colleges. I only got a 4% raise for this coming year.  Other than full tuition for their offspring, it still not enough.  It's still less than the football coach who makes a couple million..THAT'S BIG BUSINESS..AND ANOTHER STORY for another day (we'll never be a super star)        .... I get a few hours of college credits per year that I can use or a percentage of that I can transfer to my wife.  NO credit building is allowed year to year.  That, I don't understand.  I can build up vacation hours up to a VERY  large amount (to  a limit, of course), but tuition credits do not build up.  My son is 12 years old.  At this measly salary, it will be manditory for him to get scholarships for him to attend a "regular" university or superior private school out of state... There is no way I'll be able to cover my son's tuition. I hope we can all stand together and make our profession worth more than what it is, currently.  I don't think "they" know what they have!!".  IT SHOULD BE WORTH GOLD!!!!! What we do is getting harder and harder to find, and if possible, should get to the point that our "offspring" will enjoy what we deserve.  Let's also find more tech students to carry on our knowledge, otherwise, we'll all go digital!!  That would be a shame.... Enough said. On to another week in the grunge!!  A 1926 M in the middle of a "rebuild"!  We can't afford a new one!!!!!! Paul. <table width=100%> <tr valign=top> <td width=47%>"rwest1@unl.edu" <rwest1@unl.edu> Sent by: caut-bounces@ptg.org 09/07/2008 11:16 AM <table border=4> <tr valign=top> <td bgcolor=white> <div align=center>Please respond to College and University Technicians <caut@ptg.org></div></table> <td width=52%> <table width=100%> <tr valign=top> <td width=12%> <div align=right>To</div> <td width=87%>College and University Technicians <caut@ptg.org> <tr valign=top> <td> <div align=right>cc</div> <td> <tr valign=top> <td> <div align=right>Subject</div> <td>Re: [CAUT] Reasonable job descriptions</table>   <table> <tr valign=top> <td> <td></table> </table> On Sep 6, 2008, at 11:04 AM, Ralph Onesti wrote:   I was hoping you could help Vincent write a reasonable job description for the new tech as you are in the trenches and who knows where they are.   I think this would be a great exercise for this group, with the results being added to the Guidelines for Institutional Maintenance.  Or better yet,  the results could lead to a CAUT brochure, "Hiring the Piano Technician-A Resource for Colleges, Universities, and other Educational Institutions."   I don't think that there is a one-size-fits-all description.  For example, the description for a part-time contract position  would be different than for a full-time position in a large, land-grant type university which would be different than for a full-time position in a conservatory situation.  The many descriptions would let the institution decide which description was appropriate.  Salary ranges should be included as well as descriptions of the type of person that would apply (see below).   Having this kind of information available would accomplish several things.  First, although the various descriptions may not be all that different, expectations should be different, including the pay scale and type of applicant that the institution could realistically expect.  Secondly, it would leave it up to the institution to determine where it falls in the various types and pay scales.  Expectations would match the self-image of the institution.  Thirdly it would inform institutions what the pay range should be.  I don't think many people outside our group know what full-time technicians working in the private sector can make.  Doing the math for those involved in hiring would be helpful.  Finally, a beginning technician would be less demanding in salary and benefits, than an experienced RPT who has been around the block and wants to get paid appropriately.  Institutions need to know that all technicians are not created equal. Just to get some discussion going, here are some off-the-top-of-my-head ideas about types of technicians that could be matched to various descriptions. Type of technician I.  Technician, Level I:  $12,500 to $25,000, working part time, less than one year experience, tunes fewer than 5 pianos per week II. Technician, Level II:  $35,000 to $50,000, working full time, three to five years experience, tunes 15 to 25 pianos per week III. Technician, Level III:  $40,000 to $70,000, full time private or university, 5 to 10 years experience, tunes 5 to 15 pianos per week, has regulated and voiced 10 to 20 pianos over several years, regularly schedules full or partial action regulation IV. Technician, Level IV:  $50,000 to $200,000, full time private or university/conservatory, 10 to 15 years experience, tunes 5 to 10 pianos per week, has regulated and voiced pianos in concert venues,  is familiar with restringing, new parts installation, action geometry, hammer selection, key weight, piano touch, and dealing with the concert artist concerns. I would add that I think it's time for CAUT to develop an alternative to the Guidelines document.   It has been helpful, especially to technicians.  But it is, IMHO, too long for most administrators to deal with, and, also IMHO,  the document's underlying message is too self-serving.  A brochure is a better alternative. Richard West, retired but still working