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It would seem to me that shank distortion would be as measurable a physical property as any other and therefore it would be controllable by the manufacturer . Apply a given force and a given flex will result. Parts inconsistencies from note to note up and down the scale will indeed be present. But that's a given with any action, it seems to me. A carefully crafted action still has enough consistency from key to key for the pianist to control anyhow. And that would include controlling the flex of the shank. The fact that the force may vary as the piano is played is exactly the point. The pianist varies the force to produce the variation in volume and tone. <div><br></div><div>What I'm saying, therefore, is that perhaps a greater degree of flex may be desirable in Steinway's smaller grands because of the tonal results. But admittedly I'm speculating as to why earlier Steinways designs may have been successful, but perhaps not powerful enough to compete with a large concerto orchestra in large halls, due to lack of hammer weight. </div><div><br></div><div>As Fred states, we don't want to see the hammer wobbling left to right, but the fact that the hammer arches back on a hard blow and delivers a strike differently and in a different area of the hammer from a soft blow, a strike without significant shank distortion, may be a good thing, without any more inconsistency of control than a rigid shank. In fact there may be more variability and a wider choice of color and volume. Until, of course, the weight of the hammer is not great enough to really punch out the concerto volume. <br><div><br></div><div>Richard West<br><div><br></div><div> <br><div><div>On Feb 28, 2011, at 8:21 PM, Delwin D Fandrich wrote:</div><br class="Apple-interchange-newline"><blockquote type="cite"><span class="Apple-style-span" style="border-collapse: separate; color: rgb(0, 0, 0); font-family: Helvetica; font-style: normal; font-variant: normal; font-weight: normal; letter-spacing: normal; line-height: normal; orphans: 2; text-align: auto; text-indent: 0px; text-transform: none; white-space: normal; widows: 2; word-spacing: 0px; -webkit-border-horizontal-spacing: 0px; -webkit-border-vertical-spacing: 0px; -webkit-text-decorations-in-effect: none; -webkit-text-size-adjust: auto; -webkit-text-stroke-width: 0px; font-size: medium; "><div class="WordSection1" style="page: WordSection1; "><div style="margin-top: 0cm; margin-right: 0cm; margin-bottom: 0.0001pt; margin-left: 0cm; font-size: 12pt; font-family: 'Times New Roman', serif; "><span style="font-size: 11pt; font-family: 'Comic Sans MS'; color: navy; ">How much whip there is—or is not—in the hammershank depends quite a lot on the force of the key strike. It also depends on the stiffness of the shank, the mass of the hammer and the exact physical relationship between the hammer and the shank, of course, but even with a given hammer and hammershank the amount of whip—and, hence, its interaction with the strings—is anything but consistent as the key force is varied from<span class="Apple-converted-space"> </span><i>pianissimo</i><span class="Apple-converted-space"> </span>to<span class="Apple-converted-space"> </span><i>forte</i>.</span></div></div></span></blockquote><blockquote type="cite"><span class="Apple-style-span" style="border-collapse: separate; color: rgb(0, 0, 0); font-family: Helvetica; font-style: normal; font-variant: normal; font-weight: normal; letter-spacing: normal; line-height: normal; orphans: 2; text-align: auto; text-indent: 0px; text-transform: none; white-space: normal; widows: 2; word-spacing: 0px; -webkit-border-horizontal-spacing: 0px; -webkit-border-vertical-spacing: 0px; -webkit-text-decorations-in-effect: none; -webkit-text-size-adjust: auto; -webkit-text-stroke-width: 0px; font-size: medium; "><div class="WordSection1" style="page: WordSection1; "><div style="margin-top: 0cm; margin-right: 0cm; margin-bottom: 0.0001pt; margin-left: 0cm; font-size: 12pt; font-family: 'Times New Roman', serif; "><span style="font-size: 11pt; font-family: 'Comic Sans MS'; color: navy; "><o:p></o:p></span></div><div style="margin-top: 0cm; margin-right: 0cm; margin-bottom: 0.0001pt; margin-left: 0cm; font-size: 12pt; font-family: 'Times New Roman', serif; "><span style="font-size: 11pt; font-family: 'Comic Sans MS'; color: navy; "><o:p> </o:p></span></div><div style="margin-top: 0cm; margin-right: 0cm; margin-bottom: 0.0001pt; margin-left: 0cm; font-size: 12pt; font-family: 'Times New Roman', serif; "><span style="font-size: 11pt; font-family: 'Comic Sans MS'; color: navy; ">It is tempting to make universal assumptions about phenomena such as hammershank distortion based on available high-speed video clips but these clips are not at all exhaustive. While we may observe some particular amount of whip in one hammer and shank assembly and with some certain amount of key force what happens at some other amount of key force will most certainly be something else altogether. Not to mention what might be happening two or three octaves up or down the compass.<o:p></o:p></span></div><div style="margin-top: 0cm; margin-right: 0cm; margin-bottom: 0.0001pt; margin-left: 0cm; font-size: 12pt; font-family: 'Times New Roman', serif; "><span style="font-size: 11pt; font-family: 'Comic Sans MS'; color: navy; "><o:p> </o:p></span></div><div style="margin-top: 0cm; margin-right: 0cm; margin-bottom: 0.0001pt; margin-left: 0cm; font-size: 12pt; font-family: 'Times New Roman', serif; "><span style="font-size: 11pt; font-family: 'Comic Sans MS'; color: navy; ">ddf<o:p></o:p></span></div><div style="margin-top: 0cm; margin-right: 0cm; margin-bottom: 0.0001pt; margin-left: 0cm; font-size: 12pt; font-family: 'Times New Roman', serif; "><span style="font-size: 11pt; font-family: 'Comic Sans MS'; color: navy; "><o:p> </o:p></span></div><div><div style="margin-top: 0cm; margin-right: 0cm; margin-bottom: 0.0001pt; margin-left: 0cm; font-size: 12pt; font-family: 'Times New Roman', serif; "><span style="font-size: 10pt; font-family: 'Comic Sans MS'; color: rgb(99, 36, 35); ">Delwin D Fandrich</span><span style="font-size: 10pt; font-family: Calibri, sans-serif; color: rgb(99, 36, 35); "><o:p></o:p></span></div><div style="margin-top: 0cm; margin-right: 0cm; margin-bottom: 0.0001pt; margin-left: 0cm; font-size: 12pt; font-family: 'Times New Roman', serif; "><span style="font-size: 10pt; font-family: 'Comic Sans MS'; color: rgb(99, 36, 35); ">Piano Design & Fabrication</span><span style="font-size: 10pt; font-family: Calibri, sans-serif; color: rgb(99, 36, 35); "><o:p></o:p></span></div><div style="margin-top: 0cm; margin-right: 0cm; margin-bottom: 0.0001pt; margin-left: 0cm; font-size: 12pt; font-family: 'Times New Roman', serif; "><span style="font-size: 10pt; font-family: 'Comic Sans MS'; color: rgb(99, 36, 35); ">620 South Tower Avenue</span><span style="font-size: 10pt; font-family: Calibri, sans-serif; color: rgb(99, 36, 35); "><o:p></o:p></span></div><div style="margin-top: 0cm; margin-right: 0cm; margin-bottom: 0.0001pt; margin-left: 0cm; font-size: 12pt; font-family: 'Times New Roman', serif; "><span style="font-size: 10pt; font-family: 'Comic Sans MS'; color: rgb(99, 36, 35); ">Centralia, Washington 98531 USA</span><span style="font-size: 10pt; font-family: Calibri, sans-serif; color: rgb(99, 36, 35); "><o:p></o:p></span></div><div style="margin-top: 0cm; margin-right: 0cm; margin-bottom: 0.0001pt; margin-left: 0cm; font-size: 12pt; font-family: 'Times New Roman', serif; "><span style="font-size: 10pt; font-family: 'Comic Sans MS'; color: rgb(99, 36, 35); "><a href="mailto:del@fandrichpiano.com">del@fandrichpiano.com</a><o:p></o:p></span></div><div style="margin-top: 0cm; margin-right: 0cm; margin-bottom: 0.0001pt; margin-left: 0cm; font-size: 12pt; font-family: 'Times New Roman', serif; "><span style="font-size: 10pt; font-family: 'Comic Sans MS'; color: rgb(99, 36, 35); "><a href="mailto:ddfandrich@gmail.com">ddfandrich@gmail.com</a></span><span style="font-size: 10pt; font-family: Calibri, sans-serif; color: rgb(99, 36, 35); "><br></span><span style="font-size: 10pt; font-family: 'Comic Sans MS'; color: rgb(99, 36, 35); ">Phone 360.736.7563</span><span style="font-size: 10pt; font-family: Calibri, sans-serif; color: rgb(99, 36, 35); "><o:p></o:p></span></div></div><div style="margin-top: 0cm; margin-right: 0cm; margin-bottom: 0.0001pt; margin-left: 0cm; font-size: 12pt; font-family: 'Times New Roman', serif; "><span style="font-size: 11pt; font-family: 'Comic Sans MS'; color: navy; "><o:p> </o:p></span></div><div><div style="border-right-style: none; border-bottom-style: none; border-left-style: none; border-width: initial; border-color: initial; border-top-style: solid; border-top-color: rgb(181, 196, 223); border-top-width: 1pt; padding-top: 3pt; padding-right: 0cm; padding-bottom: 0cm; padding-left: 0cm; "><div style="margin-top: 0cm; margin-right: 0cm; margin-bottom: 0.0001pt; margin-left: 36pt; font-size: 12pt; font-family: 'Times New Roman', serif; "><b><span style="font-size: 10pt; font-family: Tahoma, sans-serif; ">From:</span></b><span style="font-size: 10pt; font-family: Tahoma, sans-serif; "><span class="Apple-converted-space"> </span>caut-bounces@ptg.org [<a href="mailto:caut-bounces@ptg.org">mailto:caut-bounces@ptg.org</a>]<span class="Apple-converted-space"> </span><b>On Behalf Of<span class="Apple-converted-space"> </span></b><a href="mailto:rwest1@unl.edu">rwest1@unl.edu</a><br><b>Sent:</b><span class="Apple-converted-space"> </span>Monday, February 28, 2011 9:24 AM<br><b>To:</b><span class="Apple-converted-space"> </span>caut@ptg.org<br><b>Subject:</b><span class="Apple-converted-space"> </span>Re: [CAUT] Steinway sound<o:p></o:p></span></div></div></div><div style="margin-top: 0cm; margin-right: 0cm; margin-bottom: 0.0001pt; margin-left: 36pt; font-size: 12pt; font-family: 'Times New Roman', serif; "><o:p> </o:p></div><div style="margin-top: 0cm; margin-right: 0cm; margin-bottom: 0.0001pt; margin-left: 36pt; font-size: 12pt; font-family: 'Times New Roman', serif; ">Dale,<o:p></o:p></div><div><div style="margin-top: 0cm; margin-right: 0cm; margin-bottom: 0.0001pt; margin-left: 36pt; font-size: 12pt; font-family: 'Times New Roman', serif; "><o:p> </o:p></div></div><div><div style="margin-top: 0cm; margin-right: 0cm; margin-bottom: 0.0001pt; margin-left: 36pt; font-size: 12pt; font-family: 'Times New Roman', serif; ">I don't have a current project going, but I've always wondered what it would be like to go with early designs. And I don't particularly like the way Steinway is going with its current designs. In particular I've wondered about the whipping effect a lighter, longer shank might provide. It seems like the difference between a catapult and a trebuchet. I know the leverage is totally different, but my point is whipping versus jamming the hammer toward the string. I've seen the high speed videos and I was amazed at how much the hammer shank bends on a hard blow. In fact the hammer doesn't strike at 90 degrees because it tilts back so far, then scrubs the string a couple of times before it's finally clear. Amazing and thought provoking. <o:p></o:p></div></div><div><div style="margin-top: 0cm; margin-right: 0cm; margin-bottom: 0.0001pt; margin-left: 36pt; font-size: 12pt; font-family: 'Times New Roman', serif; "><o:p> </o:p></div></div><div><div style="margin-top: 0cm; margin-right: 0cm; margin-bottom: 0.0001pt; margin-left: 36pt; font-size: 12pt; font-family: 'Times New Roman', serif; ">Richard West<o:p></o:p></div></div><div><div style="margin-top: 0cm; margin-right: 0cm; margin-bottom: 0.0001pt; margin-left: 36pt; font-size: 12pt; font-family: 'Times New Roman', serif; "><o:p> </o:p></div></div><div><div style="margin-top: 0cm; margin-right: 0cm; margin-bottom: 0.0001pt; margin-left: 36pt; font-size: 12pt; font-family: 'Times New Roman', serif; "> <o:p></o:p></div></div></div></span></blockquote></div><br></div></div></div></body></html>