<font color='black' size='2' face='Comic Sans MS, sans-serif'><font color="black" face="Comic Sans MS, sans-serif" size="2"> <div> Hey David<br>  Comments below<br> </div> <div> <br> </div> <div style="font-family: arial,helvetica; font-size: 10pt; color: black;"><b><font color="indigo" size="1"><font face="Comic Sans MS, sans-serif"><font size="2">Dale S. Erwin<br> </font></font><font face="Comic Sans MS, sans-serif"><font size="2"><font size="1">www.Erwinspiano.com</font></font><br> <font size="1">Custom restoration<br> </font></font></font><font size="1"><br> </font></b><br> <br> <div id="AOLMsgPart_2_3793532f-f554-4bb8-b6bf-96ba5aa17ecc"> <style>#AOLMsgPart_2_3793532f-f554-4bb8-b6bf-96ba5aa17ecc td{color: black;} @font-face {font-family:Calibri; panose-1:2 15 5 2 2 2 4 3 2 4;} @font-face {font-family:Tahoma; panose-1:2 11 6 4 3 5 4 4 2 4;} @font-face {font-family:"Comic Sans MS"; panose-1:3 15 7 2 3 3 2 2 2 4;} #AOLMsgPart_2_3793532f-f554-4bb8-b6bf-96ba5aa17ecc p.MsoNormal,#AOLMsgPart_2_3793532f-f554-4bb8-b6bf-96ba5aa17ecc li.MsoNormal,#AOLMsgPart_2_3793532f-f554-4bb8-b6bf-96ba5aa17ecc div.MsoNormal {margin:0in; margin-bottom:.0001pt; font-size:12.0pt; font-family:"Times New Roman","serif";} #AOLMsgPart_2_3793532f-f554-4bb8-b6bf-96ba5aa17ecc a:link,#AOLMsgPart_2_3793532f-f554-4bb8-b6bf-96ba5aa17ecc span.MsoHyperlink {mso-style-priority:99; color:blue; text-decoration:underline;} #AOLMsgPart_2_3793532f-f554-4bb8-b6bf-96ba5aa17ecc a:visited,#AOLMsgPart_2_3793532f-f554-4bb8-b6bf-96ba5aa17ecc span.MsoHyperlinkFollowed {mso-style-priority:99; color:purple; text-decoration:underline;} #AOLMsgPart_2_3793532f-f554-4bb8-b6bf-96ba5aa17ecc p.MsoAcetate,#AOLMsgPart_2_3793532f-f554-4bb8-b6bf-96ba5aa17ecc li.MsoAcetate,#AOLMsgPart_2_3793532f-f554-4bb8-b6bf-96ba5aa17ecc div.MsoAcetate {mso-style-priority:99; mso-style-link:"Balloon Text Char"; mso-margin-top-alt:auto; margin-right:0in; mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto; margin-left:0in; font-size:12.0pt; font-family:"Times New Roman","serif";} #AOLMsgPart_2_3793532f-f554-4bb8-b6bf-96ba5aa17ecc span.BalloonTextChar {mso-style-name:"Balloon Text Char"; mso-style-priority:99; mso-style-link:"Balloon Text"; font-family:"Tahoma","sans-serif";} #AOLMsgPart_2_3793532f-f554-4bb8-b6bf-96ba5aa17ecc p.msochpdefault,#AOLMsgPart_2_3793532f-f554-4bb8-b6bf-96ba5aa17ecc li.msochpdefault,#AOLMsgPart_2_3793532f-f554-4bb8-b6bf-96ba5aa17ecc div.msochpdefault {mso-style-name:msochpdefault; mso-margin-top-alt:auto; margin-right:0in; mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto; margin-left:0in; font-size:12.0pt; font-family:"Times New Roman","serif";} #AOLMsgPart_2_3793532f-f554-4bb8-b6bf-96ba5aa17ecc span.balloontextchar0 {mso-style-name:balloontextchar;} #AOLMsgPart_2_3793532f-f554-4bb8-b6bf-96ba5aa17ecc span.emailstyle17 {mso-style-name:emailstyle17;} #AOLMsgPart_2_3793532f-f554-4bb8-b6bf-96ba5aa17ecc span.balloontextchar00 {mso-style-name:balloontextchar0;} #AOLMsgPart_2_3793532f-f554-4bb8-b6bf-96ba5aa17ecc span.emailstyle22 {mso-style-name:emailstyle22;} #AOLMsgPart_2_3793532f-f554-4bb8-b6bf-96ba5aa17ecc span.emailstyle23 {mso-style-name:emailstyle23;} #AOLMsgPart_2_3793532f-f554-4bb8-b6bf-96ba5aa17ecc span.EmailStyle25 {mso-style-type:personal; font-family:"Comic Sans MS"; color:navy; font-weight:normal; font-style:normal; text-decoration:none none;} #AOLMsgPart_2_3793532f-f554-4bb8-b6bf-96ba5aa17ecc span.EmailStyle26 {mso-style-type:personal; font-family:"Comic Sans MS"; color:navy; font-weight:normal; font-style:normal; text-decoration:none none;} #AOLMsgPart_2_3793532f-f554-4bb8-b6bf-96ba5aa17ecc span.EmailStyle27 {mso-style-type:personal; font-family:"Comic Sans MS"; color:navy; font-weight:normal; font-style:normal; text-decoration:none none;} #AOLMsgPart_2_3793532f-f554-4bb8-b6bf-96ba5aa17ecc span.EmailStyle28 {mso-style-type:personal-reply; font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif"; color:#1F497D;} #AOLMsgPart_2_3793532f-f554-4bb8-b6bf-96ba5aa17ecc .MsoChpDefault {mso-style-type:export-only; font-size:10.0pt;} @page WordSection1 {size:8.5in 11.0in; margin:1.0in 1.0in 1.0in 1.0in;} #AOLMsgPart_2_3793532f-f554-4bb8-b6bf-96ba5aa17ecc div.WordSection1 {page:WordSection1;} </style> <div class="WordSection1"> <div class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size: 11pt; font-family: "Calibri","sans-serif"; color: rgb(31, 73, 125);">FWIW those original hammers at 8.5 and 3 grams respectively produce strike weights around 10.3 grams for note 1 and 4.6 grams for note 88. <b><font color="purple">This will vary depending on the type of shank used. ie An Abel tapered shank yields about .3 tenths of a gram lighter than a non tapered one & I suspect the WNG type even lighter yet. Something else to factor in when choosing a strike weight. The numbers I posted earlier for the S fall into the next to lowest place on the hammer weight part of the chart so I would call that  l really light and appropriate for a small piano but an S is a really small piano.  As  the size grows so does the string mass, soundboard mass etc. And this is pretty much what I find in countless pianos. <br>   Based on measuring  multitudes of sample hammers from many instruments of all makes has shown a fairly common range on the hammer weight curve (not strike weight) for many pianos that fall in the 6, 7 & 8 (hammer weight) range. Not excessive as I see it but a far cry from column 2. <br> So, perhaps they all have it wrong, or perhaps all these pianos will sound better with lighter hammers.  Actually I think the answer is more complex and it may be answered with the help of  hammer sampling. <br>    Just as sampling tells us something about the inherent stiffness of the belly, there surely is an inherent hammer weight sweet spot for a given soundboard system in terms of hammer weight. Surely  with redesigned bellys being made in varying iteration of stiffness hammer density also becomes an issue.   How to find it is the challenge.</font></b><br>   On the Stanwood chart that puts them at about the 33<sup>rd</sup> percentile at both ends.<br>   <b><font color="purple"> Light but not excessively light. In what type of modern piano would excessively light be appropriate? I know of none. </font></b><br>  The entire range of strike weights on his charts for note #1 are from  8 – 14.8 grams, is ( <font color="purple"><b>a 6.2 gram hammer) </b></font>and for note #88 from 3.5 – 6.9 grams. <br> <b><font color="purple">= (a 1.7 gram hammer</font>) </b> So 10.3 and 4.6 falls at the lower end but not the lowest.  My experience is similar to Del’s in that the lighter hammers, especially without excessive felt over the molding in the treble, produces a much greater clarity and dynamic range.  A good example of this are those 60’s and 70’s pianos where the Steinway hammer really ratcheted up quite a bit in terms of weight<font color="purple"><b>. No argument there </b></font> Those hammers deliver a lot of “whump” but not a lot of tonal clarity or dynamic range.  Swap those things out for a lightweight hammer and the pianos can really come alive with more clarity and less noise—helps with the lousy geometry of those vintages as well<b><font color="purple">.Thanks-Dale</font></b></span></div> <div class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size: 11pt; font-family: "Calibri","sans-serif"; color: rgb(31, 73, 125);"> </span></div> <div> <div class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size: 11pt; font-family: "Calibri","sans-serif"; color: rgb(31, 73, 125);">David Love</span></div> <div class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size: 11pt; font-family: "Calibri","sans-serif"; color: rgb(31, 73, 125);"><a href="http://www.davidlovepianos.com" target="_blank">www.davidlovepianos.com</a></span></div> </div> <div class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size: 11pt; font-family: "Calibri","sans-serif"; color: rgb(31, 73, 125);"> </span></div> <div> <div style="border-width: 1pt medium medium; border-style: solid none none; border-color: rgb(181, 196, 223) -moz-use-text-color -moz-use-text-color; padding: 3pt 0in 0in;"> <div class="MsoNormal"><b><span style="font-size: 10pt; font-family: "Tahoma","sans-serif";">From:</span></b><span style="font-size: 10pt; font-family: "Tahoma","sans-serif";"> <a href="mailto:caut-bounces@ptg.org">caut-bounces@ptg.org</a> [<a href="mailto:caut-bounces@ptg.org?">mailto:caut-bounces@ptg.org</a>] <b>On Behalf Of </b>Delwin D Fandrich<br> <b>Sent:</b> Tuesday, March 01, 2011 5:35 PM<br> <b>To:</b> <a href="mailto:caut@ptg.org">caut@ptg.org</a><br> <b>Subject:</b> Re: [CAUT] Fwd: Steinway sound-Hammer weights</span></div> </div> </div> <div class="MsoNormal"> </div> <div class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size: 11pt; font-family: "Comic Sans MS"; color: navy;">I don’t find the “old weights” to be that much different from other old hammers I’ve measured through the upper tenor and treble. Were I fitting hammers to this piano they’d run from about 8.5 grams down to 3 grams; in other words pretty much like you took off. I tend to use relatively soft and light hammers. It’s been a long time since I put on a C-88 hammer weighing more than 4.0 grams on any piano. </span></div> <div class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size: 11pt; font-family: "Comic Sans MS"; color: navy;"> </span></div> <div class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size: 11pt; font-family: "Comic Sans MS"; color: navy;">I’ve not found heavier hammers to give a particularly “darker” sound through the upper tenor and treble. Certainly not more dynamic range. Unless, of course, the weight has been removed by removing felt from the striking area. And, unless you’re working with very high tensions (which with a Model S you probably are unless you’ve replaced the bridge and rescaled the thing.) In fact, clarity of tone and improved dynamic range are two of the reasons why I like using relatively light hammers. That, and it lets me get a lot of the lead out of the keys. In any case, it didn’t seem to me that matching the mass of the original hammers would be particularly ridiculous. But then, I’m pretty much always contrarian….</span></div> <div class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size: 11pt; font-family: "Comic Sans MS"; color: navy;"> </span></div> <div class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size: 11pt; font-family: "Comic Sans MS"; color: navy;">ddf</span></div> <div class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size: 11pt; font-family: "Comic Sans MS"; color: navy;"> </span></div> </div> </div>  </div> </font></font>