<font color='black' size='2' face='Comic Sans MS, sans-serif'><font size="2"><font face="Comic Sans MS, sans-serif">Del<br>   I was aware of what you are saying as far as the string lengths and sound board size etc not be all that much  bigger in larger pianos. I just did not take the time to say so. Good information.<br>     </font></font>I <font color="black" face="Comic Sans MS, sans-serif" size="2">don't really have time to go much further than this (prepping for convention) but but, I have looked at a few more samples of hammer weights from other pianos. <br>    I weigh and prep a lot of hammers for Ronsen clients and one of the heaviest over all are Yamaha C-7s. Ever played with the weights here? I usually choose to drop off about 1/2 gram or so on the bass end as the first bass hammer often weighs over 10.5 grams and extends a pretty tubby amount of weight thru the bass/tenor. Usually I find that actions with good overall key/action ratios (ie 5.5) are sabotaged with this kind of weight yet Yamahas seem to handle it better than I would guess. Any thoughts.<br>   <br> <div> <br> </div> <div> <br> </div> <div style="clear: both;"><b><font color="indigo" size="1"><font face="Comic Sans MS, sans-serif"><font size="2">Dale S. Erwin<br> </font></font><font face="Comic Sans MS, sans-serif"><font size="2"><font size="1">www.Erwinspiano.com</font></font><br> <font size="1">Custom restoration<br> Ronsen Piano hammers<br> Join the Weickert felt Revolution<br> 209-577-8397</font></font><br> 209-985-0990</font><font size="1"><br> </font></b><br> <br> </div> <div> <br> </div> <div> <br> </div> <div style="font-family: arial,helvetica; font-size: 10pt; color: black;">-----Original Message-----<br> From: Delwin D Fandrich <del@fandrichpiano.com><br> To: caut@ptg.org<br> Sent: Wed, Mar 2, 2011 1:31 pm<br> Subject: Re: [CAUT] Fwd: Steinway sound-Hammer weights<br> <br> <div id="AOLMsgPart_2_30828842-130f-4ea7-be68-a3f81507ece9"> <style>#AOLMsgPart_2_30828842-130f-4ea7-be68-a3f81507ece9 td{color: black;} @font-face {font-family:Calibri; panose-1:2 15 5 2 2 2 4 3 2 4;} @font-face {font-family:Tahoma; panose-1:2 11 6 4 3 5 4 4 2 4;} @font-face {font-family:"Comic Sans MS"; panose-1:3 15 7 2 3 3 2 2 2 4;} #AOLMsgPart_2_30828842-130f-4ea7-be68-a3f81507ece9 p.MsoNormal,#AOLMsgPart_2_30828842-130f-4ea7-be68-a3f81507ece9 li.MsoNormal,#AOLMsgPart_2_30828842-130f-4ea7-be68-a3f81507ece9 div.MsoNormal {margin:0cm; 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font-family:"Comic Sans MS"; color:navy; font-weight:normal; font-style:normal; text-decoration:none none;} #AOLMsgPart_2_30828842-130f-4ea7-be68-a3f81507ece9 .MsoChpDefault {mso-style-type:export-only; font-size:10.0pt;} @page WordSection1 {size:612.0pt 792.0pt; margin:72.0pt 72.0pt 72.0pt 72.0pt;} #AOLMsgPart_2_30828842-130f-4ea7-be68-a3f81507ece9 div.WordSection1 {page:WordSection1;} </style> <div class="WordSection1"> <div class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size: 11pt; font-family: "Comic Sans MS"; color: navy;">Full size, I think. The Model S starts with 12-1/2 gage wire, the Model D with 13-1/2 gage.</span></div> <div class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size: 11pt; font-family: "Comic Sans MS"; color: navy;"> </span></div> <div class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size: 11pt; font-family: "Comic Sans MS"; color: navy;">Still, these numbers are not all that different in most pianos regardless of size and most pianos—again, regardless of size—start with #13 gage wire (or the metric equivalent). I’ve not found the hammer requirements to vary much up there. From roughly there down, yes, of course. </span></div> <div class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size: 11pt; font-family: "Comic Sans MS"; color: navy;"> </span></div> <div> <div class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size: 10pt; font-family: "Comic Sans MS"; color: rgb(99, 36, 35);">Delwin D Fandrich</span><span style="font-size: 10pt; font-family: "Calibri","sans-serif"; color: rgb(99, 36, 35);"></span></div> <div class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size: 10pt; font-family: "Comic Sans MS"; color: rgb(99, 36, 35);">Piano Design & Fabrication</span><span style="font-size: 10pt; font-family: "Calibri","sans-serif"; color: rgb(99, 36, 35);"></span></div> <div class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size: 10pt; font-family: "Comic Sans MS"; color: rgb(99, 36, 35);">620 South Tower Avenue</span><span style="font-size: 10pt; font-family: "Calibri","sans-serif"; color: rgb(99, 36, 35);"></span></div> <div class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size: 10pt; font-family: "Comic Sans MS"; color: rgb(99, 36, 35);">Centralia, Washington 98531 USA</span><span style="font-size: 10pt; font-family: "Calibri","sans-serif"; color: rgb(99, 36, 35);"></span></div> <div class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size: 10pt; font-family: "Comic Sans MS"; color: rgb(99, 36, 35);"><a href="mailto:del@fandrichpiano.com">del@fandrichpiano.com</a></span></div> <div class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size: 10pt; font-family: "Comic Sans MS"; color: rgb(99, 36, 35);"><a href="mailto:ddfandrich@gmail.com">ddfandrich@gmail.com</a></span><span style="font-size: 10pt; font-family: "Calibri","sans-serif"; color: rgb(99, 36, 35);"><br> </span><span style="font-size: 10pt; font-family: "Comic Sans MS"; color: rgb(99, 36, 35);">Phone  360.736.7563</span><span style="font-size: 10pt; font-family: "Calibri","sans-serif"; color: rgb(99, 36, 35);"></span></div> </div> <div class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size: 11pt; font-family: "Comic Sans MS"; color: navy;"> </span></div> <div> <div style="border-width: 1pt medium medium; border-style: solid none none; border-color: rgb(181, 196, 223) -moz-use-text-color -moz-use-text-color; padding: 3pt 0cm 0cm;"> <div class="MsoNormal" style="margin-left: 36pt;"><b><span style="font-size: 10pt; font-family: "Tahoma","sans-serif";">From:</span></b><span style="font-size: 10pt; font-family: "Tahoma","sans-serif";"> <a href="mailto:caut-bounces@ptg.org">caut-bounces@ptg.org</a> [<a href="mailto:caut-bounces@ptg.org?">mailto:caut-bounces@ptg.org</a>] <b>On Behalf Of </b>David Love<br> <b>Sent:</b> Wednesday, March 02, 2011 9:32 AM<br> <b>To:</b> <a href="mailto:caut@ptg.org">caut@ptg.org</a><br> <b>Subject:</b> Re: [CAUT] Fwd: Steinway sound-Hammer weights</span></div> </div> </div> <div class="MsoNormal" style="margin-left: 36pt;"> </div> <div class="MsoNormal" style="margin-left: 36pt;"><span style="font-size: 11pt; font-family: "Calibri","sans-serif"; color: rgb(31, 73, 125);">One thing about this, however, is that the string gauges in these sections (on the D) are a half size (or more) larger boosting both the mass and tension in these sections.   Wouldn’t that combined with a slightly heavier assembly to accommodate that tend to boost the hammer mass requirements?</span></div> <div class="MsoNormal" style="margin-left: 36pt;"><span style="font-size: 11pt; font-family: "Calibri","sans-serif"; color: rgb(31, 73, 125);"> </span></div> <div> <div class="MsoNormal" style="margin-left: 36pt;"><span style="font-size: 11pt; font-family: "Calibri","sans-serif"; color: rgb(31, 73, 125);">David Love</span></div> <div class="MsoNormal" style="margin-left: 36pt;"><span style="font-size: 11pt; font-family: "Calibri","sans-serif"; color: rgb(31, 73, 125);"><a target="_blank" href="http://www.davidlovepianos.com">www.davidlovepianos.com</a></span></div> </div> <div class="MsoNormal" style="margin-left: 36pt;"><span style="font-size: 11pt; font-family: "Calibri","sans-serif"; color: rgb(31, 73, 125);"> </span></div> <div> <div style="border-width: 1pt medium medium; border-style: solid none none; border-color: rgb(181, 196, 223) -moz-use-text-color -moz-use-text-color; padding: 3pt 0cm 0cm;"> <div class="MsoNormal" style="margin-left: 36pt;"><b><span style="font-size: 10pt; font-family: "Tahoma","sans-serif";">From:</span></b><span style="font-size: 10pt; font-family: "Tahoma","sans-serif";"> <a href="mailto:caut-bounces@ptg.org">caut-bounces@ptg.org</a> [<a href="mailto:caut-bounces@ptg.org?">mailto:caut-bounces@ptg.org</a>] <b>On Behalf Of </b>Delwin D Fandrich<br> <b>Sent:</b> Wednesday, March 02, 2011 8:15 AM<br> <b>To:</b> <a href="mailto:caut@ptg.org">caut@ptg.org</a><br> <b>Subject:</b> Re: [CAUT] Fwd: Steinway sound-Hammer weights</span></div> </div> </div> <div class="MsoNormal" style="margin-left: 36pt;"> </div> <div class="MsoNormal" style="margin-left: 36pt;"><span style="font-size: 11pt; font-family: "Comic Sans MS"; color: navy;">Just how much does the string mass change in the treble section of a piano like the Model S compared to, say, a Model D? I just pulled up one each randomly selected Model S scale and Model D scale. The Model D has this:</span></div> <div class="MsoNormal" style="margin-left: 36pt;"><span style="font-size: 11pt; font-family: "Comic Sans MS"; color: navy;">     C-88 length = 49 mm</span></div> <div class="MsoNormal" style="margin-left: 36pt;"><span style="font-size: 11pt; font-family: "Comic Sans MS"; color: navy;">     C-76 length = 99 mm</span></div> <div class="MsoNormal" style="margin-left: 36pt;"><span style="font-size: 11pt; font-family: "Comic Sans MS"; color: navy;">     C-64 length = 184 mm</span></div> <div class="MsoNormal" style="margin-left: 36pt;"><span style="font-size: 11pt; font-family: "Comic Sans MS"; color: navy;">The Model S has this:</span></div> <div class="MsoNormal" style="margin-left: 36pt;"><span style="font-size: 11pt; font-family: "Comic Sans MS"; color: navy;">     C-88 length = 58 mm</span></div> <div class="MsoNormal" style="margin-left: 36pt;"><span style="font-size: 11pt; font-family: "Comic Sans MS"; color: navy;">     C-76 length = 97 mm</span></div> <div class="MsoNormal" style="margin-left: 36pt;"><span style="font-size: 11pt; font-family: "Comic Sans MS"; color: navy;">     C-64 length = 182 mm</span></div> <div class="MsoNormal" style="margin-left: 36pt;"><span style="font-size: 11pt; font-family: "Comic Sans MS"; color: navy;"> </span></div> <div class="MsoNormal" style="margin-left: 36pt;"><span style="font-size: 11pt; font-family: "Comic Sans MS"; color: navy;">String scales certainly do change with the length of the piano further on down the scale but for the top two octaves, well, the guy notching the bridges could have been off that far. I tend to end up with hammers of the quite similar mass in the top octave or two regardless of piano length. </span></div> <div class="MsoNormal" style="margin-left: 36pt;"><span style="font-size: 11pt; font-family: "Comic Sans MS"; color: navy;"> </span></div> <div class="MsoNormal" style="margin-left: 36pt;"><span style="font-size: 11pt; font-family: "Comic Sans MS"; color: navy;">ddf</span></div> <div class="MsoNormal" style="margin-left: 36pt;"><span style="font-size: 11pt; font-family: "Comic Sans MS"; color: navy;"> </span></div> <div class="MsoNormal" style="margin-left: 36pt;"><span style="font-size: 10pt; font-family: "Comic Sans MS"; color: rgb(99, 36, 35);">Delwin D Fandrich</span><span style="font-size: 10pt; font-family: "Calibri","sans-serif"; color: rgb(99, 36, 35);"></span></div> <div class="MsoNormal" style="margin-left: 36pt;"><span style="font-size: 10pt; font-family: "Comic Sans MS"; color: rgb(99, 36, 35);">Piano Design & Fabrication</span><span style="font-size: 10pt; font-family: "Calibri","sans-serif"; color: rgb(99, 36, 35);"></span></div> <div class="MsoNormal" style="margin-left: 36pt;"><span style="font-size: 10pt; font-family: "Comic Sans MS"; color: rgb(99, 36, 35);">620 South Tower Avenue</span><span style="font-size: 10pt; font-family: "Calibri","sans-serif"; color: rgb(99, 36, 35);"></span></div> <div class="MsoNormal" style="margin-left: 36pt;"><span style="font-size: 10pt; font-family: "Comic Sans MS"; color: rgb(99, 36, 35);">Centralia, Washington 98531 USA</span><span style="font-size: 10pt; font-family: "Calibri","sans-serif"; color: rgb(99, 36, 35);"></span></div> <div class="MsoNormal" style="margin-left: 36pt;"><span style="font-size: 10pt; font-family: "Comic Sans MS"; color: rgb(99, 36, 35);"><a href="mailto:del@fandrichpiano.com">del@fandrichpiano.com</a></span></div> <div class="MsoNormal" style="margin-left: 36pt;"><span style="font-size: 10pt; font-family: "Comic Sans MS"; color: rgb(99, 36, 35);"><a href="mailto:ddfandrich@gmail.com">ddfandrich@gmail.com</a></span><span style="font-size: 10pt; font-family: "Calibri","sans-serif"; color: rgb(99, 36, 35);"><br> </span><span style="font-size: 10pt; font-family: "Comic Sans MS"; color: rgb(99, 36, 35);">Phone  360.736.7563</span><span style="font-size: 10pt; font-family: "Calibri","sans-serif"; color: rgb(99, 36, 35);"></span></div> <div class="MsoNormal" style="margin-left: 36pt;"><span style="font-size: 11pt; font-family: "Comic Sans MS"; color: navy;"> </span></div> <div class="MsoNormal" style="margin-left: 72pt;"><b><span style="font-size: 10pt; font-family: "Tahoma","sans-serif";">From:</span></b><span style="font-size: 10pt; font-family: "Tahoma","sans-serif";"> <a href="mailto:caut-bounces@ptg.org">caut-bounces@ptg.org</a> [<a href="mailto:caut-bounces@ptg.org?">mailto:caut-bounces@ptg.org</a>] <b>On Behalf Of </b>Dale Erwin<br> <b>Sent:</b> Tuesday, March 01, 2011 8:27 PM<br> <b>To:</b> <a href="mailto:caut@ptg.org">caut@ptg.org</a><br> <b>Subject:</b> Re: [CAUT] Fwd: Steinway sound-Hammer weights</span></div> <div class="MsoNormal" style="margin-left: 72pt;"> </div> <div> <div class="MsoNormal" style="margin-left: 72pt;"><span style="font-size: 10pt; font-family: "Comic Sans MS"; color: black;">Hey David<br>  Comments below</span></div> </div> <div> <div class="MsoNormal" style="margin-left: 72pt;"><span style="font-size: 10pt; font-family: "Comic Sans MS"; color: black;"> </span></div> </div> <div> <div class="MsoNormal" style="margin-right: 0cm; margin-bottom: 12pt; margin-left: 72pt;"><b><span style="font-size: 10pt; font-family: "Comic Sans MS"; color: indigo;">Dale S. Erwin<br> </span></b><b><span style="font-size: 7.5pt; font-family: "Comic Sans MS"; color: indigo;"><a target="_blank" href="http://www.Erwinspiano.com"><span style="color: windowtext;">www.Erwinspiano.com</span></a><br> Custom restoration</span></b><span style="font-size: 10pt; font-family: "Arial","sans-serif"; color: black;"></span></div> <div id="AOLMsgPart_2_3793532f-f554-4bb8-b6bf-96ba5aa17ecc"> <div> <div> <div class="MsoNormal" style="margin-left: 72pt;"><span style="font-size: 11pt; font-family: "Calibri","sans-serif"; color: rgb(31, 73, 125);">FWIW those original hammers at 8.5 and 3 grams respectively produce strike weights around 10.3 grams for note 1 and 4.6 grams for note 88. </span><b><span style="font-size: 11pt; font-family: "Calibri","sans-serif"; color: purple;">This will vary depending on the type of shank used. ie An Abel tapered shank yields about .3 tenths of a gram lighter than a non tapered one & I suspect the WNG type even lighter yet. Something else to factor in when choosing a strike weight. The numbers I posted earlier for the S fall into the next to lowest place on the hammer weight part of the chart so I would call that  l really light and appropriate for a small piano but an S is a really small piano.  As  the size grows so does the string mass, soundboard mass etc. And this is pretty much what I find in countless pianos. </span></b><span style="font-size: 10pt; font-family: "Arial","sans-serif"; color: black;"></span></div> </div> </div> </div> </div> </div> </div>  </div> </font></font>