FWIW....I really respect the objective nature with which this post was written. No one hammer brand or felt or type of pressing can be all thing to all pianos all the time and that's reality. With in that reality it is on us to make good choices.  AS Fred said,paraphrased.... I have money for parts but not time to fail...or something close. For sure <div> </div> <div style="clear: both;"> Dale S. Erwin www.Erwinspiano.com - </div> <div style="font-family: arial,helvetica; font-size: 10pt; color: black;"> From: David Love <davidlovepianos@comcast.net> To: caut@ptg.org Sent: Thu, Mar 3, 2011 3:12 pm Subject: Re: [CAUT] Fwd: Steinway sound-Hammer weights <div id="AOLMsgPart_0_69a27423-a90f-40f9-bb37-4679f67dacec" style="margin: 0px; font-family: Tahoma,Verdana,Arial,Sans-Serif; font-size: 12px; color: rgb(0, 0, 0); background-color: rgb(255, 255, 255);"> <pre style="font-size: 9pt;"><tt>There's another piano that I work on that I forgot about. It's about a 200 seat hall (church), Steinway D. I've worked on the piano for about 30 years, tried a couple of different hammers including Steinway and Renner Blues. At present I have a Wurzen Felt Ronsen hammer on there. It has been lightly lacquered from top to bottom with a mild solution. I think there may be two applications in the treble from about note 55 up. It gets a lot of use and the use ranges from solo to chamber with some very good pianists playing it. The piano, so I hear, has a reputation of being a pleasure to play. I would not call the piano over powering but it does have an expressive quality and the live hall helps too. It's not a great vintage Steinway (1980's) and has some 5th octave weakness yet people seem to like to play it. I get very good reports from the person who records things there and interacts with all the artists. I ask him frequently about feedback on the piano because I want to know. I ask about power and range and such and from what I'm told it's not an issue. So there's yet another example. I do agree with something that was said earlier (by Fred) that the issue is less about "brightness" per se than range and the ability for the tone to climb the ladder without crapping out too early. In my experience, that happens the best on a softer hammer when the hammer starts out just a little under (without much lacquer or hardener) and is allowed to play up to the level wanted. Given time, it will develop a solid, deep foundation that won't collapse under fff playing and kill the upper partial development. But that takes some time and most concert situations don't have that luxury. In such cases the choice is a firmer hammer that gets voiced down or a softer hammer that gets lacquered up fairly quickly and heavily. If that's the choice then I prefer the firmer hammer that gets voiced down with one caveat, that it's a quality hammer with good elasticity and tension, not a hard pressed lump of dead felt. The Hamburg Steinway hammers that I have used fall into that category (good elasticity and tension). The Able Select cold pressed hammer has fallen into that category though I'm having trouble with a recent set and so will say that with some reservation at the moment. As far as softer hammers go, the Steinway hammer will never get to that place no matter how much you play it and requires a heavy amount of lacquer. That doesn't work in the long term (for me) and so I don't think that the Steinway hammer is a good choice for a D, at least not at the current pressing. I'm surprised, in fact, that they don't seem to alter the pressing for an M versus a D. They just seem to make it bigger which just requires even more lacquer--counterproductive in the long run. For a smaller piano whose requirements are for less firmness it seems to be fine. The Ronsen Bacon felt hammer is in the same category, I think. However, the Ronsen Wurzen and Weickert felt hammers are firmer and will rise to the appropriate level with some play-in and a minimum amount of hardener. It may not be the right hammer for a very heavy belly (Bosendorfer Imperial for example--though I've never tried one on one of those), but for a D, if it can be given adequate time for development, the right weight and shape and thickness of felt over the crown in the upper end, it can produce everything that's needed. In a concerto situation or a 3000 seat concert hall, maybe not, but that's usually taxing the upper limit of what constitutes "tone" anyway. At least that's been my experience. David Love <a href="http://www.davidlovepianos.com" target="_blank">www.davidlovepianos.com</a> -----Original Message----- From: <a href="mailto:caut-bounces@ptg.org">caut-bounces@ptg.org</a> [<a href="mailto:caut-bounces@ptg.org?">mailto:caut-bounces@ptg.org</a>] On Behalf Of Fred Sturm Sent: Thursday, March 03, 2011 9:42 AM To: <a href="mailto:caut@ptg.org">caut@ptg.org</a> Subject: Re: [CAUT] Fwd: Steinway sound-Hammer weights On Mar 3, 2011, at 9:03 AM, Mark Cramer wrote: > Almost immediately, one of our faculty pianists, who had "cancelled" > a recording on that piano in fall, sent me a note... "our Steinway's > back!!" > Sorry I don't have time to elaborate further, I'll just say "it's > been a long time since something that easy made so many people so > happy." Thanks! I have read testimonials that said the technician loved those hammers, but the question is really whether the artists do as well, whether it serves in the concert situation. Often those two are in conflict (which is one thing this whole convoluted thread has been about). I look forward to some elaboration, especially concerning what kind of prep the hammers were given. Regards, Fred Sturm <a href="mailto:fssturm@unm.edu">fssturm@unm.edu</a> <a href="http://www.cdbaby.com/Artist/FredSturm" target="_blank">http://www.cdbaby.com/Artist/FredSturm</a> </tt></pre> </div>  </div>