<font color='black' size='2' face='Comic Sans MS, sans-serif'><font size="2"><font face="Comic Sans MS, sans-serif">   David, Keith Israel and all.<br>   I want to say that 10 years ago I thought I would join the list because I might have something to contribute.  What I got was nothing short of an education by the collective experience of a group that rivals the educational opportunity of many conventions combined as well as the privileged to join in the discussion.<br>  I want to say this clearly..<u>..IT HAS CHANGED MY LIFE</u>.  What I have learned here shortened my learning curve and provided the courage to go where no Dale has gone before.:) <br>   PTG exist because the members support it financially and with their time. It is one of the strengths and weakness of such an organization. For example...It is a risk to teach, wondering how the class will be received, or if anyone will show up. Wondering if aaaall the efforts you made to get the class up to speed and running will pay off. If few show up or worse if the feedback is not positive after the event, then the countenance will fall. AMHIK. No one came along side and said there there better luck next time. Here's a check for all you pain and suffering. But I was asked to teach and I did. As the man says "ya pay yo money and yya take yer chances son". No doubt Alan was asked to help and he did.  THANK YOU ALAN G. and all that run the list.<br>  Perhaps the only mistep in the entire format change as I read thru these post was not giving some forewarning so there was adequate discussion. David, you've got it right here in so many ways.<br>  <br>  Israel is angry because his friend is being hurt inadvertently and I assure you no one is that malicious here.<br>   Dale E.<br> <br> <br>  David wrote<br> </font></font><font color="black" face="Comic Sans MS, sans-serif" size="2"><br> <font color="black" face="Comic Sans MS, sans-serif" size="2"> <div class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size: 11pt; font-family: "Calibri","sans-serif"; color: rgb(31, 73, 125);">The PTG operates primarily as a source of education and support for its members and a running dialogue in real time, an open forum, where ideas are easily posted and discussed and where the format lends itself to tangential discussions that often lead in unpredictable but productive directions  is a considerable part of that ongoing education.  <b><u>It doesn’t exist as easily or in the same way outside of this format</u></b>. Whether you personally consider the list a valuable form of the ongoing education cycle I don’t know.  But I do and so do a lot of others.  </span></div> <div class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size: 11pt; font-family: "Calibri","sans-serif"; color: rgb(31, 73, 125);"> </span></div> <div class="MsoNormal"><b><span style="font-size: 11pt; font-family: "Calibri","sans-serif"; color: rgb(31, 73, 125);">W<u>ith respect to Allen and those who made great efforts to bring this new site online, nobody is disparaging them and I for one am truly sorry if anything I said was taken that way by them or anyone else. </u>   </span></b></div> </font> <div> <br> </div> <div style="clear: both;"><b><font color="indigo" size="1"><font face="Comic Sans MS, sans-serif"><font size="2">Dale S. Erwin<br> </font></font><font face="Comic Sans MS, sans-serif"><font size="2"><font size="1">www.Erwinspiano.com</font></font><br> <font size="1">Custom restoration<br> Ronsen Piano hammers<br> Join the Weickert felt Revolution<br> 209-577-8397</font></font><br> 209-985-0990</font><font size="1"><br> </font></b><br> <br> </div> <div> <br> </div> <div> <br> </div> <div style="font-family: arial,helvetica; font-size: 10pt; color: black;">-----Original Message-----<br> From: David Love <davidlovepianos@comcast.net><br> To: pianotech@ptg.org; caut@ptg.org<br> Sent: Wed, Mar 9, 2011 9:52 pm<br> Subject: [CAUT] New List versus Old List RE: [pianotech] pianotech Digest, Vol 29, Issue 48<br> <br> <div id="AOLMsgPart_2_7fadde84-5780-4841-bdae-407fc91898d9"> <style>#AOLMsgPart_2_7fadde84-5780-4841-bdae-407fc91898d9 td{color: black;} @font-face {font-family:Calibri; panose-1:2 15 5 2 2 2 4 3 2 4;} @font-face {font-family:Consolas; panose-1:2 11 6 9 2 2 4 3 2 4;} #AOLMsgPart_2_7fadde84-5780-4841-bdae-407fc91898d9 p.MsoNormal,#AOLMsgPart_2_7fadde84-5780-4841-bdae-407fc91898d9 li.MsoNormal,#AOLMsgPart_2_7fadde84-5780-4841-bdae-407fc91898d9 div.MsoNormal {margin:0in; 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font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif"; color:#1F497D;} #AOLMsgPart_2_7fadde84-5780-4841-bdae-407fc91898d9 .MsoChpDefault {mso-style-type:export-only; font-size:10.0pt;} @page WordSection1 {size:8.5in 11.0in; margin:1.0in 1.0in 1.0in 1.0in;} #AOLMsgPart_2_7fadde84-5780-4841-bdae-407fc91898d9 div.WordSection1 {page:WordSection1;} </style> <div class="WordSection1"> <div class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size: 11pt; font-family: "Calibri","sans-serif"; color: rgb(31, 73, 125);">Israel:</span></div> <div class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size: 11pt; font-family: "Calibri","sans-serif"; color: rgb(31, 73, 125);"> </span></div> <div class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size: 11pt; font-family: "Calibri","sans-serif"; color: rgb(31, 73, 125);">Here’s the problem I have with your post.  While I understand that the PTG does not exist for the list, the contributions of those on the list are not small and their generosity should be respected and appreciated in spite of the quirks of some of their communications styles and in spite of some of the useless, antagonistic  and redundant threads.  It’s part of what happens in dialogue.  Some of the posts themselves are used for PTJ sections and are an integral part of that publication.  But more than that the list represents an attitude that many technicians have of giving back.  While the list provides an opportunity for people to learn from others it only does so out of the generosity and willingness of technicians (around the world in this case) to share their thoughts and ideas, techniques, tools and tips.  It’s no small thing and the trade benefits enormously from that generosity.  To imply that it is mostly the list members who owe something to the PTG for providing them a “chatty” forum is to disrespect the efforts that they make to offer their collective wisdom.  It is as if to say, thank you for your generosity and now if you want to keep giving you will have to pay for your generosity.   How much more effort should I have to make to offer what I know out of nothing more than my own commitment to the betterment of the trade and to help others who are trying to learn.  Respectfully, I think you have it backwards.  <br> </span></div> <div class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size: 11pt; font-family: "Calibri","sans-serif"; color: rgb(31, 73, 125);">Great efforts on a bad idea are still great efforts and can be applauded.  But they don’t make the idea any better.  And while we may very well disagree on the merits of the idea, I would hope that people (including those who made the great efforts) could keep those things separate.     </span></div> <div class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size: 11pt; font-family: "Calibri","sans-serif"; color: rgb(31, 73, 125);"> </span></div> <div class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size: 11pt; font-family: "Calibri","sans-serif"; color: rgb(31, 73, 125);"> </span></div> <div> <div class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size: 11pt; font-family: "Calibri","sans-serif"; color: rgb(31, 73, 125);">David Love</span></div> <div class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size: 11pt; font-family: "Calibri","sans-serif"; color: rgb(31, 73, 125);"><a href="http://www.davidlovepianos.com" target="_blank">www.davidlovepianos.com</a></span></div> </div> </div> </div>  </div> </font></font>