<font color='black' size='2' face='Comic Sans MS, sans-serif'><font size="2"><font face="Comic Sans MS, sans-serif">David S.<br>   Thanks for the heads up. Hah!  the pendulum swings.<br>    I agree with Serge here. From experience I have seen that actions with really efficient action ratios in terms of reasonable regulation and ability carry hammer weigh are simply defeated by hammer weights that are too high. IE 5.5 to 1....or lower. Usually the upper limit on any note in our shop on note 1 is 10 grams, and this is typically reserved for Yamaha C-7s  as this was what was on there to begin with.<br> <br>     In the case of the new Steinway hammers the felt density will provide a hammer that will require less or very weak solutions to get the sound the C&A dept is looking for, ... this is great, but......If...<font size="3"><b>I,...</b></font> was going to use them I would be concerned about matching the weight to my action ratio. AS Serge said, one size does not fit all. Personally, I would get them un prepared and give them a healthy full taper, file them, extra coving etc and that will bring them down  into a more workable weight for some actions. Another other issue is in the recent past they have been to wide, and so.... too heavy for many decent action ratios. Therefore custom preparation is all the more critical.<br> </font></font><font color="black" face="Comic Sans MS, sans-serif" size="2"> <div> <br> </div> <div> <br> </div> <div style="clear: both;"><b><font color="indigo" size="1"><font face="Comic Sans MS, sans-serif"><font size="2">Dale S. Erwin<br> </font></font><font face="Comic Sans MS, sans-serif"><font size="2"><font size="1">www.Erwinspiano.com</font></font><br> <font size="1">Custom restoration<br> Ronsen Piano hammers<br> Join the Weickert felt Revolution<br> 209-577-8397</font></font><br> 209-985-0990</font><font size="1"><br> </font></b><br> <br> </div> <div> <br> </div> <div> <br> </div> <div style="font-family: arial,helvetica; font-size: 10pt; color: black;">-----Original Message-----<br> From: Serge Harel <serge.harel@videotron.ca><br> To: caut@ptg.org<br> Sent: Thu, Mar 17, 2011 5:47 am<br> Subject: Re: [CAUT] Steinway D 25lb felt from NY - Watchdogs needed<br> <br> <div id="AOLMsgPart_2_b8f5737d-2d63-4f6b-b2f9-e22b5fe07fb3"> David <div><br> </div> <div>Yamaha do the same now with the new CFX very very thick top felt from Wurzen </div> <div>and the S&S D Hamburg is 22 pound before and I think they go for bigger now</div> <div><br> </div> <div>If Steinway New York are 25 pounds now they have for sure more felt density that before and this is good... ( less plastic juice)</div> <div><br> </div> <div>But your right this not for every piano it is way too simplistic there is no one side fit all in this choice of hammer </div> <div><br> </div> <div>Serge Harel</div> <div><br> </div> <div><br> </div> <div><br> </div> <div><br> <div class="gmail_quote">2011/3/17 David Stanwood <span dir="ltr"><<a href="mailto:stanwood@tiac.net">stanwood@tiac.net</a>></span><br> <blockquote class="gmail_quote" style="margin: 0pt 0pt 0pt 0.8ex; border-left: 1px solid rgb(204, 204, 204); padding-left: 1ex;"> Dear All,<br> <br> In my consulting work providing Precision TouchDesign Specifications to my agent group I receive a lot of hammer weight data on new hammers and have been receiving such data for almost two decades.  I have a pretty good handle on what's normal and expected from various manufacturers.<br> <br> I just received a set of data for a set of new Steinway D hammers that is worth sharing publicly because it falls on the edge of what I would call normal.  The word I get is that Steinway NY has in their pipeline a new design for their Steinway D hammers using 25lb felt. The note from the factory that came with the hammers says:<br> <br> "Please be aware that these new Model D hammers are being delivered with no lacquer solution or "juice" having been applied. Fabrication improvements have significantly reduced the amount of reinforcing solution that may be required. For this reason, please apply any solution sparingly if tone building is required. If you have any questions or concerns, please call parts department 1-800-366-1853"<br> <br> I spoke with the Steinway NY parts Dept. yesterday and they confirmed that all D sets would be of this type from now on.  The Hammer/Strike Weight level on this one set are higher than just about anything I have ever seen in my experience.  They start out in the low high zone at note 1 increasing to top high at note 40 then top high or higher from notes 55 - 80 down to 1/2 high at 88.  This set of hammers has been tapered normally.  The graph may be viewed at:<br> <br> <a target="_blank" href="http://www.stanwoodpiano.com/D25LBSW1.pdf">http://www.stanwoodpiano.com/D25LBSW1.pdf</a><br> <br> I have had experience with hammers of this weight level.  There is a Steinway D at Cincinnati Conservatory that I specified top high hammer weights for and the sound is indeed BIG.  It's a powerhouse piano for a big hall.  I've only specified a handful of others at TopHigh for special needs.  I'm posting here as a warning of sorts. Hammers of this weight level could create touch weight problems without special attention given to the Touch Design Setup.  Also tone issues.  Some sound boards can get overloaded with hammer weight levels above 1/2 High Zone.  The piano will tell you.<br> <br> If any of you have received a set of these hammers and would like to share your hammer weight data I'd be happy to produce graphs and report back to the group.  Either ready to hang weights or strike weights would be fine.  88 samples please.  With more data we can get a truer picture of what is going on here.  Please send me your data! Either raw data or in an excel sheet:<br> <br> Strike Weight and Hammer Weight excel sheets at:<br> <br> <a target="_blank" href="http://www.stanwoodpiano.com/E-SmartChart3.xls">http://www.stanwoodpiano.com/E-SmartChart3.xls</a><br> <br> David Stanwood<br> <br> "Just trying to help"<br> <br> <br> <br> <br> <br> <br> <br> <br> </blockquote></div> <br> <br clear="all"><br> -- <br> phone 514-750-4522<br> cel 514-569-4414<br> <br> Piano Perfecto<br> 5932 rue Viau<br> Montreal Qc Canada H1T 2Y4<br> <br> Atelier ( Piano Shop)<br> 2177, rue Masson, bureau 211<br> Montréal, (Québec)<br> H2H 1B1, CANADA<br>  <br> <br> <br> </div> </div>  </div> </font></font>