<html><head><style type="text/css">body {word-wrap: break-word; background-color:#ffffff;}</style></head><body><div style="font-family: sans-serif; font-size: 16px">They should have used the pianoworld format for forums. <br><br>From Bob Maret .. RPT <a href="tel:4074899090">407-489-9090</a> <font color="#333333"><i><span style="font-size: 14px"><font face="sans-serif">Sent via DROID mobile</font></span></i></font></div><br><br>-----Original message-----<br><blockquote style="; border-left: 2px solid rgb(16, 16, 255); margin-left: 5px; padding-left: 5px;"><div style="font-family: sans-serif; font-size: 14px"><b>From: </b>Bdshull@aol.com<b><br>To: </b>caut@ptg.org<b><br>Sent: </b>Wed, Jun 29, 2011 21:49:04 GMT+00:00<b><br>Subject: </b>[CAUT] Lists and the new software<br><br></div><div>
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<DIV><BR>All, </DIV>
<DIV> </DIV>
<DIV>Don Mannino posted this on the pianotech discussion forum and it was so
thoughtfully written I'm sharing it with several lists, new and old....</DIV>
<DIV> </DIV>
<DIV>Regards,</DIV>
<DIV> </DIV>
<DIV>Bill</DIV>
<DIV> </DIV>
<DIV>Most of this discussion mirrors my own feelings about the new system. At
first I was just astounded at how difficult it is to use, and to view messages
on line, etc. Once I started using it again as an e-mail list it became less
onerous, but it still has strong limitations that bother
me.<BR><BR><BR><BR>However, some of the criticism written recently is
overstated, mainly because some people have not taken the time to wade through
the instructions to set up the new e-mail subscription. Which is a
pain.<BR><BR><BR><BR>Once the plain text e-mail format is set up, the new system
will function mostly like the old, except it needs to be in plain text format,
and you cannot simply attach files to messages. Of course, there are other
limitations â but overall, it does work.<BR><BR><BR><BR>But having said
that, it is very clear that the new setup is disliked by a large percentage of
past users, and that the on-line web based version is just plain dumb and
disorganized in function. To me, it is all but useless.<BR><BR><BR><BR>I checked
some of the other companies (all non-profits) that the software vendor
advertises as using their software. It appears that all of them have the same
semi-dysfunctional format instead of a logical, threaded forum as is readily
available from other software vendors. So it does appear that the software
itself is not adaptable to work like a normal informational forum, as we all
have used. Piano World is one great example, but also most computer companies
have support forums which are very simple to use.<BR><BR><BR><BR>From what I
have heard in talking to PTG people, the software package was purchased for a
wide variety of uses. For some aspects of what the PTG needs it to do, it
apparently has features that are beneficial and useful â especially to the
board and committee members. The software company, Higher Logic (and yes, that
company name seems especially ironic to me) apparently sold the PTG a bill of
goods, featuring all of the truly useable features and somehow glossing over the
member discussion areas. Our management is not immune to making mistakes, of
course, and instead of having some key forum users look at the software and
evaluating it, they seem to have believed what they were told and went with the
package. I know that I would have been very glad to have evaluated the software,
and I think others would have as well, and that step alone would have prevented
this fiasco. Or at least, one would hope so.<BR><BR><BR><BR>As it is now, things
are awkward. I believe the issue will be discussed at length in Council, but I
donâÂÂt know what decisions can be made. Once the money has been spent it
becomes very hard to simply right it off completely and move to something
different. Plus, those features of the PTG software that are beneficial would
need to be retained. So throwing it out completely doesnâÂÂt make sense, but
there are options.<BR><BR><BR><BR>In my opinion, here are the current issues and
possibilities:<BR><BR>- It is beneficial for PTG to administer mail lists for
members, to keep searchable archives, and to provide the central location for
managing list subscriptions as a service to the PTG members and technical
community.<BR><BR>- The list maintenance and management (eliminating spam,
dealing with hacks, fixing subscriber issues, etc.) really should be a volunteer
activity. This has been the case to some degree in the past, and the process has
become rather overbearing for those involved. Especially keeping junk out
apparently has become a very time consuming problem. <BR><BR>- Good software
should solve the junk / spam issue, and the current software seems to have done
so as far as I know. But of course, the software is in other ways bad and we
donâÂÂt like it.<BR><BR>- This software allowed the maintenance of both web
based and e-mail based discussions. Unfortunately it does both of them
badly.<BR><BR><BR><BR>What can we do instead?<BR><BR>- Ask the PTG to set up
different software for community forums separate from Higher Logic, with trials
and input from members and users.<BR><BR>- Decide if we all would be happy with
an on-line forum instead of e-mail. This would be a big change for many, but in
my opinion would solve the problem of both SPAM and ease of use. But the
messages would not move through our e-mail software.<BR><BR>- If we all vote for
continuing this as an e-mail service, then a group of administrators needs to
share the responsibilities for maintaining it. This could be set up as an
ongoing committee, made up of technically minded and interested people from our
membership. The administration would still be handled like before through the
PTG web site.<BR><BR><BR><BR>If there are web forums that allow both e-mail and
well organized web based forums, IâÂÂd love to have that option. But so far I
havenâÂÂt seen such a thing.<BR><BR><BR><BR>Personally, my vote would be for
an on-line forum, similar to Piano World or other such forums. I am much more
comfortable taking an hour or two each day to scan things in an online forum,
and read and contribute to threads that are of interest and that I can
contribute to. I also feel this is less distracting for my work day, as it
doesnâÂÂt pull me away from other work to read incoming messages all day.
These can also be formatted for mobile devices â something that would make
life very much easier for many who use smartphones. <BR><BR><BR><BR>Wait, can we
get someone to write a PTG APP for iPhone, Android, and Windows Phone? Now
thereâÂÂs an idea.<BR><BR><BR><BR>I am not a PTG-L subscriber, so cannot post
there. If anyone wishes to re-post this in that area, feel
free.<BR><BR><BR><BR>Don Mannino RPT</DIV>
<DIV> </DIV>
<DIV><FONT lang=0 size=2 face=Arial FAMILY="SANSSERIF" PTSIZE="10">Bill Shull,
RPT, M.Mus.<BR>President, Shull Piano Inc<BR>Director, Period Piano
Center<BR>25041 Redlands Blvd<BR>Loma Linda, CA 92354<BR>909 796-4226 bus
cell<BR>bdshull@aol.com<BR><A href="http://www.shullpiano.com/">www.shullpiano.com</A><BR><A href="http://www.periodpianos.org/">www.periodpianos.org</A><BR>
<DIV> </DIV>
<DIV>
<DIV>In a message dated 6/29/2011 8:42:49 A.M. Pacific Daylight Time,
imatunr@srvinet.com writes:</DIV>
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<DIV><FONT size=2 face=Arial>Hi Folks<</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT size=2 face=Arial>Thought I would update my thoughts on the recent
Reno Seminar.</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT size=2 face=Arial>Two things </FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT size=2 face=Arial>Met a tool I got to have ( grand hammer head
extractor pliers )</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT size=2 face=Arial>Feature that sold me on the tool was that the
leverage it uses to pop the hammer off the shank is much greater than any of
the other tools of similar function. Its compact sturdy construction makes it
very easy to remove the hammer with less danger of affecting flange pinning
when removing the hammer while parts are still attached to the rail.
</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT size=2 face=Arial>Dale's tool is available from
Pianoforte.</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT size=2 face=Arial></FONT> </DIV>
<DIV><FONT size=2 face=Arial>Secondly,</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT size=2 face=Arial>Have you ever heard a Yamaha Grand not mostly
sound like a Jazz only instrument?</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT size=2 face=Arial>Ray Negron & Weickert felt
hammers.</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT size=2 face=Arial>Ray took us through the process of how his
company (my thoughts) has returned to the old way of making
hammers.</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT size=2 face=Arial>Not the new way of Hot pressed hammers, that need
the tech with a arm like Godzilla, to </FONT><FONT size=2 face=Arial>needle
the hammer into submission,</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT size=2 face=Arial>to produce a reasonable tone.</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT size=2 face=Arial>Our day was mostly spent the first half with Dale
The second half with Ray, with the host's Yamaha grand used as a work
bench.</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT size=2 face=Arial>At 3:55 PM the piano was cleaned off and Wade
Muncy, the owner proceeded to play a very romantic jazz tune. Followed by
several other tecs who</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT size=2 face=Arial>played other styles that made the piano show
what it was able to produce and support stylistically.</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT size=2 face=Arial></FONT> </DIV>
<DIV><FONT size=2 face=Arial>No attempts at pre voicing were done, this was a
raw hung set of hammers.</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT size=2 face=Arial></FONT> </DIV>
<DIV><FONT size=2 face=Arial>I think from the comments made, all were as
stunned and pleased as I, at the range of dynamics and styles that were
available to the performer</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT size=2 face=Arial></FONT> </DIV>
<DIV>Joe Goss BSMusEd MMusEd RPT<BR><A title=mailto:imatunr@srvinet.com href="mailto:imatunr@srvinet.com">imatunr@srvinet.com</A><BR><A title=http://www.mothergoosetools.com/ href="http://www.mothergoosetools.com/">www.mothergoosetools.com</A></DIV></FONT></BLOCKQUOTE></DIV></FONT></DIV></FONT></div>
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