<!doctype html public "-//W3C//DTD W3 HTML//EN"> <html><head><style type="text/css"></style><title>Re: Old behaviour (temperament)</title></head><body> <div>Jeff,</div> <div><br></div> <div>I don't know enough about all this to really get involved in the discussion currently going on, but I would like to make a couple of comments.</div> <div><br></div> <blockquote type="cite" cite>I tried an HT last semester for a rehearsal for a performance of a Haydn<br> piece using a fortepiano.  I didn't really know where to go to find out<br> which HT to use, so I consulted our Music Theory Prof, who is also our<br> historical keyboard specialist.  I didn't get the feeling he knew which<br> would be best either, but he suggested the Valotti, so that's what I used.<br> The piece was in D and Valotti is supposed to work in D.</blockquote> <div><br></div> <div>We have a Fortepiano currently being built, so your comments interested me.</div> <div>I "hope" to be able to always use an HT on it but probably won't be able to.</div> <div><br></div> <div>I did use the Young #1 for a Mozart piano concerto several years ago. The</div> <div>only people who knew about it were the pianist, conductor and a few faculty members. The pianist took a while to get used to it but by the time it</div> <div>was all over, she liked it. She's never used one before, so I pushed kind</div> <div>of hard to get her to try it and even offered to get some extra time in the</div> <div>hall if she decided she wanted to do it. Of course, I think that kind of</div> <div>helped some. :-)</div> <div><br></div> <div>Most of my HT tunings are done on a harpsichord, which is normally kept in</div> <div>an HT of some kind. It's rare for me to have to tune an ET on those. For a</div> <div>long time, the Prinz was the normal one. At Owen's suggestion, I even used</div> <div>that for a performance of the Messiah.</div> <div><br></div> <div>I've also used the Coleman II for a faculty cello with harpsichord recital. Currently, I'm using the EBVT temperament offsets that Owen worked out and</div> <div>our early music/harpsichord guy likes it. He thinks it's very mild. Of</div> <div>course, he also had me do a Meantone once for a particular early music</div> <div>concert. :-)</div> <div><br></div> <blockquote type="cite" cite>Well, I later learned that the ensemble had a very difficult time with<br> intonation,</blockquote> <div><br></div> <div>This, I guess, is the main reason I'm writing. As you know, an orchestra</div> <div>doesn't really play in ET, left to it's own devices. Only when a keyboard</div> <div>is used, basically and the festival orchestra for the concerto had no</div> <div>problem at all with that. Whatever tuning differences that might have</div> <div>come up, the orchestra just adjusted to it and went right on.</div> <div><br></div> <div>I'm not sure which would be considered the stronger of the two (Valotti</div> <div>or Young) but I don't understand why they had such a hard time. Maybe I'm missing something but it seems like a mild WT would work well with any</div> <div>music of that period. Even with people who aren't used to it. I don't</div> <div>think I've ever used a Valotti but will play with it when I get a chance.</div> <div>Just out of curiosity.</div> <div><br></div> <div>A week or so ago, I had a chance to tune an HT for Enid Katahn (Ed's CD collaborator) for a guest recital here for which she was accompanying a</div> <div>singer in an all French music recital. Unfortunately, it didn't work out.</div> <div>There was a Master Class prior to the recital and I hesitated to use an</div> <div>HT for pianists who weren't used to it. They're under a lot of pressure</div> <div>already and for some, that might have added more. But the primary reason</div> <div>I didn't is that Enid and I decided that, given the time frame, it would</div> <div>be more profitable to do some voicing that I hadn't been able to get to</div> <div>prior to all that, rather than retuning to the HT. Maybe another</div> <div>opportunity will come up sometime soon.</div> <div><br></div> <blockquote type="cite" cite>Now this argument that historical temperaments "sound better" is just a<br> little too much to swallow.  In what key do they sound better?  Wasn't the<br> discovery of theoretical ET a watershed which allows for total movement<br> throughout the keys without the ugly changes in intonation? (which some<br> refer to as "color")   And if your professors are telling you to just<br> "stick with ET"...</blockquote> <div><br></div> <div>I really don't think "sound better" is what's usually meant. At least not</div> <div>the way most people think of something "sounding better". The "color"</div> <div>would be more accurate, I guess. The way I understand it is that composers</div> <div>"back then" used the various changes in key color to build calm, tension, excitement, whatever into their music by starting with a particular key</div> <div>suitable to what they wanted to hear and modulating to and from various</div> <div>keys to achieve that. Maybe this is too simplistic but that's where I am</div> <div>at this point. (Be gentle, Ed & Ron!) :-) </div> <div><br></div> <blockquote type="cite" cite>So, perhaps it is fear.  Perhaps it is ignorance, which I certainly admit.<br> But it looks to me like its exponentially larger than the proponents of<br> using HTs are trying to make it sound.  I just don't think it is as simple</blockquote> <blockquote type="cite" cite>as being able to offer the 14 temperaments installed on my SAT III.</blockquote> <div><br></div> <div>No, it probably isn't that simple. Even when using an ETD, one "should" be</div> <div>able to know what to check aurally to verify that one is actually getting</div> <div>the temperament and tuning correct. That is where some time and study come</div> <div>in. But as Ed said in a previous post, most tuners with an ETD just use</div> <div>the offsets and put it on top of the tuning in the machine. Hopefully,</div> <div>it's a "tweaked" tuning, though, to smooth out any inconsistencies in the</div> <div>ET, which really means it needs to be tuned in ET, improved aurally as</div> <div>much as possible and then stored in memory before the offsets are added</div> <div>in. At least that's what I<i> try</i> to do.</div> <div><br></div> <blockquote type="cite" cite>If someone requests a temp other than ET, I'll be happy to do my best to<br> deliver.  But I feel like I've got way too many irons in the fire already<br> to try and become an expert in yet another field. And in the overall scheme<br> of life, it indeed is "only a piana."  I've got a life, and piano<br> maintenance is what supports it.  Not the other way around.<br> <br> Perhaps I only speak for one, then again, maybe many.</blockquote> <div><br></div> <div>Probably many but I'm open to learning more about it and I think a</div> <div>university setting is particularly suitable to exposing the students to</div> <div>HT's. At least it'll give them some basis on which to decide whether they</div> <div>like any of them or not. Anyway, that's one of my arguments for getting</div> <div>people to try it. :-)</div> <div><br></div> <div>Avery</div> <div><br></div> <blockquote type="cite" cite>Jeff<br> <br> Jeff Tanner<br> Piano Technician<br> School of Music<br> 813 Assembly ST<br> University of South Carolina<br> Columbia, SC 29208<br> (803)-777-4392</blockquote> <blockquote type="cite" cite>jtanner@mozart.sc.edu<br> <br> <br> _______________________________________________<br> caut list info: https://www.moypiano.com/resources/#archives</blockquote> <div><br></div> </body> </html>