<html> <body> At 12:24 PM 10/18/2005 -0500, you wrote: <blockquote type=cite class=cite cite="">List,</blockquote> <blockquote type=cite class=cite cite=""> We have quite a few Orientals & probably some others that have fairly small hands & it could be especially useful for them. </blockquote> <blockquote type=cite class=cite cite="">Avery</blockquote> Hi Avery - As you may not have a chance to order a new flame suit before the cauls start coming in, I thought I'd insert this passage, quoted from  freedictionary.com: <blockquote type=cite class=cite cite="">o<img src="cid:.0" alt= ="[]"> ri·en<img src="cid:.1" alt="[]">tal·ly adv. Usage Note: Asian is now strongly preferred in place of Oriental for persons native to Asia or descended from an Asian people. The usual objection to Oriental<img src="cid:.2" alt="[]">meaning "eastern"<img src="cid:.2" alt="[]">is that it identifies Asia= n countries and peoples in terms of their location relative to Europe. However, this objection is not generally made of other Eurocentric terms such as Near and Middle Eastern. The real problem with Oriental is more likely its connotations stemming from an earlier era when Europeans viewed the regions east of the Mediterranean as exotic lands full of romance and intrigue, the home of despotic empires and inscrutable customs. At the least these associations can give Oriental a dated feel, and as a noun in contemporary contexts (as in the first Oriental to be elected from the district) it is now widely taken to be offensive. However, Oriental should not be thought of as an ethnic slur to be avoided in all situations. As with Asiatic, its use other than as an ethnonym, in phrases such as Oriental cuisine or Oriental medicine, is not usually considered objectionable.</blockquote> Frankly, I'm not sure if an ethnic Korean, for example, would be any more (or less) insulted being referred to as an Asian than he or she might be when spoken of as an Oriental.   What if "Asia" meant "Land to the East of those "?  It would still be defining a population relative to some other population.  If we, as "Westerners" could easily discern a Laotian from a Cambodian from a Burmese or a Myanmarian, (:O), we would be less inclined to employ such collective nouns. So, Avery, here's your act of deep penitence: find out, from Admissions Office the actual student population breakdown by nationality, and, for added karma, measure and correlate their hand sizes.  :)   Well, I thought it was funny anyway, but maybe I need a flame suit too. David Skolnik </body> </html>