<!DOCTYPE HTML PUBLIC "-//W3C//DTD HTML 4.0 Transitional//EN"> <HTML xmlns="http://www.w3.org/TR/REC-html40" xmlns:v = "urn:schemas-microsoft-com:vml" xmlns:o = "urn:schemas-microsoft-com:office:office" xmlns:w = "urn:schemas-microsoft-com:office:word" xmlns:st1 = "urn:schemas-microsoft-com:office:smarttags"><HEAD> <META http-equiv=Content-Type content="text/html; = charset=iso-8859-1"> <META content=Word.Document name=ProgId> <META content="MSHTML 6.00.2600.0" name=GENERATOR> <META content="Microsoft Word 10" name=Originator><LINK href="cid:filelist.xml@01C3F788.AB7D89D0" = rel=File-List><o:SmartTagType name="PlaceName" namespaceuri="urn:schemas-microsoft-com:office:smarttags"></o:SmartTagT= ype><o:SmartTagType name="time" namespaceuri="urn:schemas-microsoft-com:office:smarttags"></o:SmartTagT= ype><o:SmartTagType name="date" namespaceuri="urn:schemas-microsoft-com:office:smarttags"></o:SmartTagT= ype><o:SmartTagType name="City" namespaceuri="urn:schemas-microsoft-com:office:smarttags"></o:SmartTagT= ype><o:SmartTagType name="place" namespaceuri="urn:schemas-microsoft-com:office:smarttags"></o:SmartTagT= ype><o:SmartTagType name="PersonName" namespaceuri="urn:schemas-microsoft-com:office:smarttags"></o:SmartTagT= ype> <STYLE>  </STYLE> <O:SMARTTAGTYPE name="PersonName" namespaceuri="urn:schemas-microsoft-com:office:smarttags"></O:SMARTTAGT= YPE></HEAD> <BODY lang=EN-US style="tab-interval: .5in" vLink=purple = link=blue bgColor=white> <DIV>Yes, that is wierd!</DIV> <DIV>How sharp is the shape of the = V-bar?</DIV> <DIV>The angles in the tenor and under the = V-bar are about as steep as any I recall on any piano.</DIV> <DIV>I wonder if the strings have been = stressed through string seating or extreme overpull.</DIV> <DIV>The one I work on is miserable in pitch = raises.</DIV> <DIV>Ed</DIV> <BLOCKQUOTE dir=ltr style="PADDING-RIGHT: 0px; PADDING-LEFT: 5px; MARGIN-LEFT: 5px; = BORDER-LEFT: #000000 2px solid; MARGIN-RIGHT: 0px"> <DIV style="FONT: 10pt arial">----- Original Message ----- </DIV> <DIV style="BACKGROUND: #e4e4e4; FONT: 10pt arial; font-color: = black">From: <A title=llafargue@charter.net href="mailto:llafargue@charter.net">llafargue</A> </DIV> <DIV style="FONT: 10pt arial">To: <A title=caut@ptg.org href="mailto:caut@ptg.org">'College and University Technicians'</A> = </DIV> <DIV style="FONT: 10pt arial">Sent: Friday, February 20, 2004 = 9:08 AM</DIV> <DIV style="FONT: 10pt arial">Subject: RE: hammer shank = length</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV class=Section1> Angles are = steep and in this model you may recall, the V bar goes through the tenor = section, not just the treble.  Tenor = is where they are breaking, which is weird.  <o:p></o:p> <o:p> </o:p> <DIV> <st1:PersonName>Lance Lafargue</st1:PersonName>, = RPT<o:p></o:p> LAFARGUE PIANOS<o:p></o:p> New Orleans = Chapter, PTG<o:p></o:p> 985.72P.IANO<o:p></o:p> <st1:PersonName><A = href="mailto:llafargue@charter.net">llafargue@charter.net</A></F= ONT></st1:PersonName><o:p></o:p></DIV> <o:p> </o:p> -----Original Message----- From: = <A href="mailto:caut-bounces@ptg.org">caut-bounces@ptg.org</A> [mailto:caut-bounces@ptg.org] On = Behalf Of Ed Sutton Sent: Friday, February 20, 2004 6:58 AM To: College and University Technicians Subject: Re: hammer shank length <o:p> </o:p> <DIV> Lance-<o:p></o:p></DIV> <DIV> What are the bearing = angles like in the front duplex of the new BB?<o:p></o:p></DIV> <DIV> In the late Aeolian BB's = the agraffe section is very short and the capo sections have very steep = bearing angles in the front.<o:p></o:p></DIV> <DIV> String travel problems - = excess tension in front duplex and sharp bend tending to injure the wire at = the V-bar, plus hard hammers hitting on the V-bar could cause string breakage.<o:p></o:p></DIV> <DIV> You may be able to = rehang the hammers a little further back on the original shanks...no need to trim = hammer shanks!  And voicing hammers may = help.<o:p></o:p></DIV> <DIV> Ed Sutton<o:p></o:p></DIV> <BLOCKQUOTE style="BORDER-RIGHT: medium none; PADDING-RIGHT: 0in; BORDER-TOP: = medium none; PADDING-LEFT: 4pt; PADDING-BOTTOM: 0in; MARGIN: 5pt 0in 5pt = 3.75pt; BORDER-LEFT: black 1.5pt solid; PADDING-TOP: 0in; BORDER-BOTTOM: = medium none"> <DIV> ----- Original Message = ----- <o:p></o:p></DIV> <DIV style="font-color: black"> From: <A title=llafargue@charter.net href="mailto:llafargue@charter.net">llafargue</A> <o:p></o:p></DIV> <DIV> To: <A title=caut@ptg.org href="mailto:caut@ptg.org">'College and = University Technicians'</A> <o:p></o:p></DIV> <DIV> Sent: Thursday, February 19, 2004 8:04 = PM<o:p></o:p></DIV> <DIV> Subject: RE: hammer shank length<o:p></o:p></DIV> <DIV> <o:p> </o:p></DIV> Thanks Mark,<o:p></o:p> I don�t mean to alarm anyone, I�m hoping there is a simple = solution and not a major problem here, too.  = I know the players at this piano and I don�t believe there is heavy = playing.  Two broken strings in a = month and when I first saw the piano the hammers were hitting the V-bar at C8 (dead).  I�m still = waiting to hear from tech support after talking to two other people who passed = me around.  I�ll keep = you posted.  <o:p></o:p> <o:p> </o:p> <DIV> <st1:PersonName>Lance Lafargue</st1:PersonName>, = RPT<o:p></o:p> LAFARGUE PIANOS<o:p></o:p> <st1:City><st1:place>New Orleans</st1:place></st1:City> Chapter, PTG<o:p></o:p> 985.72P.IANO<o:p></o:p> <st1:PersonName>llafargue@charter.net</st1:PersonName><o:p></o:p></DIV> <o:p> </o:p> -----Original Message----- From: caut-bounces@ptg.org [mailto:caut-bounces@ptg.org] On Behalf Of Mark = Cramer Sent: <st1:date = Month="2" Day="19" Year="2004">Thursday, February = 19, 2004</st1:date> = <st1:time Hour="18" Minute="38">6:38 PM</st1:time> To: College and University Technicians Subject: RE: hammer shank length<o:p></o:p> <o:p> </o:p> <DIV> Lance,<o:p></o:p></DIV> <DIV>  <o:p></o:p></DIV> <DIV> I'm wondering about plate/bridge location (hence speaking = length) when you mention string breakage? <o:p></o:p></DIV> <DIV>  <o:p></o:p></DIV> <DIV> I just can't believe this (the problem you describe) would happen in a new Mason...say it ain't so!<o:p></o:p></DIV> <DIV>  <o:p></o:p></DIV> <DIV> For Pete's sake, they're only producing two models of grands = (currently), you'd think they'd have the jigs right, especially when you see the size = of plate-location pins they = use! <o:p></o:p></DIV> <DIV>  <o:p></o:p></DIV> <DIV> In any case, the factory should be able to provide you with speaking length = at #88 for a quick reference. <o:p></o:p></DIV> <DIV>  <o:p></o:p></DIV> <DIV> I don't want to send you on a goose-chase Lance, but often find it = useful to look at a problem from more than one angle.<o:p></o:p></DIV> <DIV>  <o:p></o:p></DIV> <DIV> Best of luck!<o:p></o:p></DIV> <DIV>  <o:p></o:p></DIV> <DIV> Mark Cramer,<o:p></o:p></DIV> <DIV> <st1:place><st1:PlaceName>Brandon</st1:PlaceName> <st1:PlaceName>University</st1:PlaceName></st1:place><o:p></o:p></P= ></DIV> <BLOCKQUOTE style="MARGIN-TOP: 5pt; MARGIN-BOTTOM: 5pt; MARGIN-RIGHT: = 0in">-----Original Message----- From: caut-bounces@ptg.org [mailto:caut-bounces@ptg.org]On Behalf Of = llafargue Sent: = <st1:date Month="2" Day="19" Year="2004">Thursday, February = 19, 2004</st1:date> = <st1:time Hour="11" Minute="50">11:50 AM</st1:time> To: 'College and University = Technicians' Subject: RE: hammer shank length<o:p></o:p> I agree, it�s just hard to see what�s going on back there and I = think ideally the hammers would be rehung, especially if it�s also = contributing to string breakage.  = I�ll study it closer to see if I can tell exactly what�s hitting back = there.  <o:p></o:p> <DIV> <st1:PersonName>Lance Lafargue</st1:PersonName>, = RPT<o:p></o:p> LAFARGUE = PIANOS<o:p></o:p> <o:p> </o:p> <st1:City><st1:place>New Orleans</st1:place></st1:City> Chapter, PTG<o:p></o:p> 985.72P.IANO<o:p></o:p> <st1:PersonName>llafargue@charter.net</st1:PersonName><o:p></o:p><= /DIV> <o:p> </o:p> -----Original Message----- From: caut-bounces@ptg.org [mailto:caut-bounces@ptg.org] On Behalf Of Erwinspiano@aol.com Sent: = <st1:date Month="2" Day="19" Year="2004">Thursday, February = 19, 2004</st1:date> = <st1:time Hour="9" Minute="8">9:08 AM</st1:time> To: = caut@ptg.org Subject: Re: hammer shank length<o:p></o:p> <DIV> <DIV> In a = message dated <st1:date Month="2" Day="19" = Year="2004">2/19/2004</st1:date> <st1:time Hour="6" Minute="26">6:26:20 AM</st1:time> Pacific Standard = Time, llafargue@charter.net writes:<o:p></o:p></DIV> <BLOCKQUOTE style="BORDER-RIGHT: medium none; PADDING-RIGHT: 0in; = BORDER-TOP: medium none; MARGIN-TOP: 5pt; PADDING-LEFT: 4pt; = MARGIN-BOTTOM: 5pt; PADDING-BOTTOM: 0in; MARGIN-LEFT: 3.75pt; = BORDER-LEFT: blue 1.5pt solid; PADDING-TOP: 0in; BORDER-BOTTOM: medium = none"> 5� = to 5 1/8�  <o:p></o:p> If = the hammer is mounted much longer than 5 1/8�, touch gets heavy, if = shorter than 4 7/8�, you get regulation problems and reduces leverage.  Also, tails may hit = whippen flanges when hammer comes to rest.  <o:p></o:p> I = just worked on a 2001 M&H BB and the hammer line was so off, if you = pushed the action in for proper strike @ C8 the back checks interfere with sostenuto and under levers, no matter what.  The piano is also = breaking strings at the V bar and I suspect the hammer line has something = to do with it.  Regards,<o:p></o:p> <DIV> <st1:PersonName>Lance Lafargue</st1:PersonName>, RPT<o:p></o:p> LAFARGUE PIANOS<o:p></o:p> <o:p> </o:p> <st1:City><st1:place>New Orleans</st1:place></st1:City> Chapter, PTG<o:p></o:p> 985.72P.IANO<o:p></o:p> <st1:PersonName>llafargue@charter.net</st1:PersonName><o:p></o:p><= /DIV></BLOCKQUOTE></DIV> <o:p> </o:p> <DIV>            Lance<o:p></o:p></DIV> <o:p> </o:p> <DIV>    In that case I see nothing wrong with using a motortool drum sander = to hollow out the back of the backcheck. Some new backcheck replacement I've = used for stwy's have this featire which is helpful when installing = modern type back action In an old stwy with minimal clearances. This might = give you enough room to move the action to its proper location. What do you = think?<o:p></o:p></DIV> <o:p> </o:p> <DIV>    Dale<o:p></o:p></DIV> <o:p> </o:p> <DIV> Erwins Pianos = Restorations 4721 Parker Rd. Modesto, Ca = 95357 209-577-8397 Rebuilt Steinway , Mason &Hamlin = Sales www.Erwinspiano.com<o:p></o:p></DIV></BLOCKQUO= TE></BLOCKQUOTE></DIV></BLOCKQUOTE></BODY></HTML>