<HTML><HEAD> <META charset=US-ASCII http-equiv=Content-Type content="text/html; cha= rset=US-ASCII"> <META content="MSHTML 6.00.2800.1264" name=GENERATOR></HEAD> <BODY style="FONT-SIZE: 10pt; FONT-FAMILY: Arial; BACKGROUND-COLOR: #fffff= f"> <DIV> <DIV> <DIV>Hi, David,</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>LOL - internet shorthand for "laugh out loud"   </DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>MARC isn't too terribly far from you this March....Chris Solliday and I= are planning some great CAUT classes, we would of course benefit greatly fr= om your participation - and the rest of you all on the CAUT list too - = that's what makes these CAUT events great.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>Bill Shull</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV> </DIV>I</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>n a message dated 2/16/2004 7:34:19 PM Pacific Standard Time, davidskol= nik@optonline.net writes:</DIV> <BLOCKQUOTE style="PADDING-LEFT: 5px; MARGIN-LEFT: 5px; BORDER-LEFT: blue = 2px solid">Bill -<BR><BR>Thanks for the additional information.  I'd be= curious to read and / or see what you have, if I can ever get myself to a c= onference again.  Sorry to ask...what's LOL?<BR><BR>David Skolnik<BR><B= R><BR><BR><BR>At 01:53 AM 2/15/2004 -0500, you wrote:<BR> <BLOCKQUOTE class=cite cite="" type="cite">David:<BR> <BR>The agr= affe-like hardware devices which you refer to were an important part of the = "Centennial Grand".  I feature an 1875 "Style 5"  Centennial Grand= in my "Early Steinway Grand" program.  The first-generation (early 187= 0's) front duplex had a very low draft angle, and included agraffes to the t= op of the piano.  On the first-generation front duplexing, the string f= ront termination was at the agraffe, and the round hole may not have been ef= fective at consistently leaking...maybe it was too good at clamping.....&nbs= p;  The 1875 patent idea was the first front duplex system I know of to= terminate the string with a round bar, and the first time the front duplexi= ng looked at all like the modern Steinway.    It wasn't the f= irst time Steinway introduced a duplexing idea with expensive hardware and l= ater included the concept in simple plate casting later;  the first gen= eration duplexing was introduced in the same way, with duplex inserts which = design later became part of the casting.<BR> <BR>Ask Webb to have me gi= ve the program at MARC when I come -LOL - the classes are all scheduled alre= ady - I have my theories about this stuff, some of which I blame on Del, but= which he might distance himself from....Steinway's duplexing efforts in the= 1870's are part of a little-observed, larger reality which should be brough= t to the fore and result in a revision of the history of piano technology.&n= bsp;  It's sort of the climax of my "Early Steinway Grand" program....a= nd possibly a yet-to-be-written journal article....and I believe it should h= ave an impact on the history of piano technology, oh, lofty stuff...  W= ell, I'll have my laptop at MARC and would be happy to share some of the pic= s with you there if you're interested.<BR> <BR>As for the initial quest= ion about capo/tasto/disastro nomenclature, hmmm....can't say I've cleared t= he waters any, though you've pointed to CFT's use of the terms...<BR> <= BR>Bill Shull<BR> <BR> <BR> <BR> <BR>In a message dated = 2/14/2004 7:49:27 PM Pacific Standard Time, davidskolnik@optonline.net write= s:<BR> <DL> <DD>Garret & others,<BR><BR> <DD>The recent discussion titled "Capo bars", which extended from 1/28 to 2/= 02, was attempting to address both etymology and consistency of nomenclature= .  Of the first I have nothing to add, however, looking into the second= proved illuminating.<BR><BR> <DD>At 04:11 PM 1/31/2004 -0500, Garret wrote:<BR> <BLOCKQUOTE class=cite cite="" type="cite"> <DD>Del wrote: There is a drawing in one of my PT Journal articles illustrat= ing what I mean.<BR><BR> <DD>Does someone know off hand what PT Journal issue that was?<BR><BR> <DD>Garret</DD></BLOCKQUOTE><BR> <DD>You may have already found this information, but I don't see that anyone= replied to your request on list.  I believe the article Del was referr= ing to was in the August 1995 issue, titled "The Designer's Notebook-- Front= Duplex Stringing Scales".  This was a second installment, the first ha= ving appeared in the June issue, and both being in response to a round-table= discussion regarding capo d'astros which appeared in the February 1995 issu= e. <BR><BR> <DD>There seems to be some confusion regarding the term capo d'astro and cap= o tastro.  I hadn't previously come across capo tastro, <BR></I> <DD>and, in any case, the element seems most often simply referred to as "ca= po bar".  <BR><BR> <BLOCKQUOTE class=cite cite="" type="cite"> <DD>Delwin D Fandrich <fandrich@pianobuilders.com></I></B> wrote: <BR> <DD>The capo tastro bar and the V-bar are two different things even if they = are most often part of the same casting. The capo-tastro bar is formed in th= e bottom part of the mold, the V-bar in the top. </DD></BLOCKQUOTE><BR> <DD>Vince Myrkalo then asked:<BR><BR> <BLOCKQUOTE class=cite cite="" type="cite"> <DD>Date: Sat, 31 Jan 2004 17:47:26 -0800 (PST)<BR> <DD>From: madelyn mrykalo <madvinmryk@yahoo.com><BR> <DD>Subject: RE: Capo bars<BR><BR> <DD>Is there a difference between capo tastro and capo d'astro?</DD></BLOCKQ= UOTE><BR> <DD>and Del (I think) sent the following:<BR><BR> <BLOCKQUOTE class=cite cite="" type="cite"> <DD>Date: Mon, 02 Feb 2004 08:25:13 -0800<BR> <DD>From: Delwin D Fandrich <fandrich@pianobuilders.com><BR> <DD>Subject: RE: Capo bars</DD></BLOCKQUOTE><BR> <BLOCKQUOTE class=cite cite="" type="cite"> <DD><FONT face="Comic Sans MS" color=#0000ff>According to Giraffes, Blac= k Dragons, and Other Pianos by Edwin M. Good (Second Edition, 2001. Publishe= d by the Stanford University Press, ), capo d' astro is essentially a meanin= gless term (at least as applied to the piano) meaning "cap of the star." In = other words it was a marketing term. Capo tastro is Italian for "cap of the = key" which at least has some relationship to a component of the piano. Proba= bly a more meaningful term would be "capotasto," also from Italian, meaning = "head of the fingerboard." (According to the Merriam-Webster 11th Collegiate= Dictionary.)</FONT></DD></BLOCKQUOTE><BR><BR><BR> <DD>I found the Steinway patent # 170,646 (C.F. Theodore Steinway - October = 20, 1875) titled "Improvement in Agraffes For Piano-Fortes" relevantly inter= esting in this matter.  It's actually a patent for individual capodastr= o.   These were like large brass machine thread screws which were = installed from beneath into what Steinway referred to simply as a transverse= bar.  The wide slot in the head of this screw then received a  ro= und steel "face", which was hammered into place,  He claimed this modif= ication "reduced the width of the bearing surfaces of the capodastros ... an= d at the same time the strings are prevented from wearing into the faces of = the capodastros."</I>   It  seems that he was referring to th= e capodastro as the member that would normally</I> be contacting the strings= , like the V bar.  Does anyone know whether any pianos were actually pr= oduced with this feature? <BR><BR><BR> <DD>David Skolnik</DD></DL></BLOCKQUOTE></BLOCKQUOTE></DIV> <DIV></DIV></BODY></HTML>