Fred and others,
The first thing I would think of is to remove the stack from the
keyframe and take it away from the piano for the very reason Fred
outlines.
Are you in the shop or the home? If you could, put the stack on a table
or workbench with the hammers away from you, then tip the stack towards
you so the hammers fall onto the table/bench upside down in front of
you. You can then use a chisel to chip away the glue with the hammers
supported, the crowns resting on the table/bench. If you want, cover
the rest of the stack with your sheet.
With the hammers and shanks back in their regular position and the stack
positioned with the hammers toward you, cover the wippens with your
sheet and use a knife to continue to remove the rest of the glue.
You wouldn't have to remove the individual shanks from the stack. This,
of course, does not address a thorough cleaning of the shank end in
anticipation of reglueing the hammers. But maybe they will be clean
enough if there was not a good glue bond there to begin with.
Don't forget to leave sample hammers (or remove and reglue sample
hammers first) in order to maintain the hammer line!
Joel Rappaport
Round Rock, Texas
FSSturm@aol.com wrote:
>
> I just finished regluing some loose hammers on a Kawai grand. They had
> enormous glue collars, and the glue was particularly hard and brittle, so it
> was necessary to chip away the collar before using the hammer removal tool. I
> have had this experience before (and not only on Kawais. Don't mean to run
> down a piano I otherwise have a particular fondness for).
>
> What happens is the collar chips off in small chunks, one or two of which
> invariably get between a couple keys or into the action, causing some sort of
> problem. The only way I can think of to avoid this happening is to remove the
> shank from the rail (which is often necessary anyway, to avoid stressing the
> flange too much) and taking the whole assembly to the next room. The
> particular glue has a consistency that makes it disintegrate violently, and
> the chips really fly. This last time I covered the action and keys with a
> sheet, and still a chunk managed to insinuate itself between a couple keys,
> causing a sticking key.
>
> Anyone worked out a neat technique for avoiding this problem?
>
> BTW, this particular piano demonstrates to me the fallacy of glue collars in
> general: the glue is tightly bonded to both shank and hammer molding, but the
> joint between shank and hammer hole had failed. The hammer isn't going to
> fall off (can't remember when I ever saw that happen except when a bad repair
> was at fault), but it sure does click.
>
> Regards,
> Fred Sturm
> Albuquerque, NM
Date: Thu, 01 May 1997 07:54:14 -0400 (EDT)
From: lesbart@juno.com (Leslie W Bartlett)
Subject: Re: key recovering machine
To: pianotech@byu.edu
Check with Ronald Sanford, Pasadena Texas 77502, 1503 Harding st. They
do a lot of keys. I don't know for sure where they get their hardware...
Leslie Bartlett
lesbart@juno.com
On Wed, 30 Apr 1997 17:39:21 -0400 (EDT) SGrossner@aol.com writes:
>Dear List:
> Does anyone know where I can get a production style key
>recovering
>machine?
>I have a homemade jig made from PTG article, but I need something more
>consistent. Any replies appreciated. Regards, Sam Grossner- Chicago
>
Date: Thu, 01 May 1997 08:35:19 -0400 (EDT)
From: Jon Page <jpage@capecod.net>
Subject: Re: Replacing keytops
To: pianotech@byu.edu
I have the router trimming setup but my problem sometimes is with
previously recovered keys. The sides at the notch have been vigorously
sanded creating too much space between the sharp and the tail.
On these, the flush router bit takes away too much material and often
the surfaces are not parallel. So hand filing leaves extra width on the tail
and straight lines are reinstated.
A plunge router bit in a drill press planes the keystick surface square
prior to glueing.
Jon Page
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
At 10:15 PM 4/30/97 -0700, you wrote:
>Jon Page wrote:
>> I don't trust myself with belt sanders for trimming, so I hand file and fit
>> tail notches to sharps.
>> Takes time but it comes out nice. Where's a trimming machine?
>Somewhere I saw a jig with a router table and a formica trimming bit
>with the guide bearing that allowed an exact flush cut on the long an
>straight edges with stops to prevent messing up the sharp mortice. I
>believe he used a file to shape the sharp area also.
>Is that how you do it?
>Warren
Date: Thu, 01 May 1997 08:56:55 -0500
From: atodd@UH.EDU (Avery Todd)
Subject: Harpsichord Info Sources
To: pianotech@byu.edu
List,
I just did a compilation of the Harpsichord information sources
mentioned the last day or two. I noticed two possible discrepencies.
1. Area code for The Instrument Workshop
503- OR 541-
THE INSTRUMENT WORKSHOP
503-488-4671
The Instrument Workshop, supplies, parts and plans
Voice 541.488.4671 - FAX 541.488.5846 or IWCembalo@aol.com
AND:
e-mail address for Hubbard: hubharp@aol.com OR hubbard@qds.com (or both)
HUBBARD HARPSICHORDS
hubharp@aol.com
>publications from Hubbard Harpsichords, 508.443.3417 or hubbard@qds.com
Anyone know which is correct? Thanks.
Avery
_____________________________________
Avery Todd
Moores School of Music
University of Houston
Houston, TX 77204-4893
713-743-3226
atodd@uh.edu
http://www.uh.edu/music/
_____________________________________
Date: Thu, 01 May 1997 10:05:07 -0400 (EDT)
From: JIMRPT@aol.com
Subject: Re: Glue collars
To: pianotech@byu.edu
Fred;
I agree with you on the overrating of glue collars in judging the quality
of a hammer glue joint. A glue collar can indicate several things among them
being:
1. An extremely close fit of bore hole and hammer shank. In this instance
the moulding scrapes off the glue as it is being positioned on the shank,
leaving very little glue inside the moulding for bonding to the shank.
2. Glue that is too thick, or cold, for the intended purpose whose viscosity
allows it to 'roll' up the shank as the hammer is positioned. Again leaving
very little glue in the moulding for bonding to the shank.
I believe that it is better for a bore hole to be a 'little' too large
thereby accommodating a good glue bond, rather than being a 'little' too
tight thereby not accommodating a good glue bond. There are exceptions and
different techniques that address the hammer hanging process, as pertains to
glue joints, and a good, neat, small glue collar is just one indicator of a
good glue joint but it doesn't follow that if there is a good collar that
there is a good joint.
One repair method for the original problem voiced, that started this
thread, of loose heads is to use CA glue in the very thin formulation. I
don't necessarily recommend it but the method will work well as an expedient
repair.. The old glue collars need not be removed, and in fact might
facilitate the bonding with the CA.
The thin viscosity will allow the CA to migrate into the loose joints and
bond the moulding and shank, eliminating all clicking noises.
Just some thoughts.
Jim Bryant (FL)
Date: Thu, 01 May 1997 07:15:16 -0700 (PDT)
From: Susan Kline <skline@proaxis.com>
Subject: Re: Harpsichord Info Sources
To: pianotech@byu.edu
Dear Avery,
541 is the correct area code for the Instrument Workshop.
The Instrument Workshop is in Ashland, Oregon, and the area code changed
from 503 to 541 about a year ago, for everyone in Oregon outside the
Portland area. I had to scribble the new one on about 1,000 business cards.
> I just did a compilation of the Harpsichord information sources
>mentioned the last day or two. I noticed two possible discrepencies.
>
> 1. Area code for The Instrument Workshop
> 503- OR 541-
>
>THE INSTRUMENT WORKSHOP
>503-488-4671
>
>The Instrument Workshop, supplies, parts and plans
>Voice 541.488.4671 - FAX 541.488.5846 or IWCembalo@aol.com
>
>Avery
>
>
Susan Kline
skline@proaxis.com
P.O. Box 1651,
Philomath, OR 97370
Date: Thu, 01 May 1997 09:35:53 -0500
From: atodd@UH.EDU (Avery Todd)
Subject: Re: key recovering machine
To: pianotech@byu.edu
Sam,
I just called and talked to Merle Sanford and they use an old Oslund
machine they have had for years. She said as far as she knew, there was
no source for machines like you're referring to. You'll probably have to
make your own jig with router, etc. as has been mentioned. Sorry.
Avery
>Check with Ronald Sanford, Pasadena Texas 77502, 1503 Harding st. They
>do a lot of keys. I don't know for sure where they get their hardware...
>
>Leslie Bartlett
>>Dear List:
>> Does anyone know where I can get a production style key recovering
>>machine?
>>I have a homemade jig made from PTG article, but I need something more
>>consistent. Any replies appreciated. Regards, Sam Grossner- Chicago
_____________________________________
Avery Todd
Moores School of Music
University of Houston
Houston, TX 77204-4893
713-743-3226
atodd@uh.edu
http://www.uh.edu/music/
_____________________________________
Date: Thu, 01 May 1997 14:38:29 -0500
From: ted@palmnet.net (Ted Simmons)
Subject: Ivory replacement
To: pianotech@byu.edu
While we're on the subject of keytops, a piano I tuned yesterday had a
half-dozen of the ivory fronts replaced and they each had that familiar
grayish look. I could see dark spots through the keytops which I
interpreted as gouges in the wood. The owner wanted to know if there was
anything I could do about it. I explained that ivory is translucent and
there should be a layer of white tape between the ivory and the wood key.
I'm wondering if white lacquer or white leather dye would be o.k. I told
the owner that I would do the repair at the next tuning. I'd like a method
that doesn't involve a lot of waiting time for things to dry or cure. Any
suggestions?
Ted Simmons, Merritt Island, FL
Date: Thu, 01 May 1997 12:34:01 -0500
From: "Guy, Karen, and Tor Nichols" <nicho@lascruces.com>
Subject: Re: Figuring the worth of a used piano...
To: pianotech@byu.edu
>What are some of the ways to value a piano?
> Typically I would call salesfolk with local
>dealers and pick their brains. Check what people are asking for
>in the paper. Then I would make a best guess....
>There must be a better way!?
Davids,
Nope. Your way is likely the most accurate and equitable way because.......
There's "local", "regional", "national", "antique"(where it applies),
"today"(like a wholesale cash buy in a 'must sell' situation),
"whenever"(regular buyer), "as-is", "delivered and tuned", and on and on
and on and on...prices.
It makes each one unique, in a way, even seasonally, and the fairest thing
for buyer and seller is the kind of checking you're doing.
On the other hand, if a customer needs to know what their investment is
worth for insurance or balance sheet purposes, thats' easy. Full
list(replacement) of the current comparable model. Right. Well, again, that
can be a 'best guess'.
Hope this isn't discouraging. Even as a dealer, I charge for my time when
doing evaluations,(unless the unit is D.O.A.),which makes it worth doing
right.
Just like certain jobs we do, we have to keep in mind that it's our name
and rep hanging on that dollar amount we give the customer. Don't give it
away casually.
And PLEASE don't under-value old pianos. Look at replacement costs. It
just....I won't......I get SO mad....There's NO ..well, let's not. Nutshell
is, that parents that get away with finding a garage sale $150.00 upright
that maybe you could just "tune the middle", cause it's "just" little Mary
Sue and they want to find out "if" she's "interested" and they'll keep it
in the garage so they don't have to move the big-screen t.v.
and....and.....and......
.....................breathe 2 3 4 ..........it's O.K., you can come
back now. I'll be alright. Anyway, you know that people put other values on
things besides monetary. If they don't have an investment, they won't be as
likely to make a committment. See it ALL the time. Educate them, and they
really get their money's worth for your time.
Ramblin' Regards,
Guy Nichols, RPT
nicho@lascruces.com
ps....when they DO get the garage sale upright, and you go over to fix
where the aquarium was sitting and tune the middle, MAKE them find a stool
of some sort for Mary Sue that's a better height than the chrome-and-vinyl
kitchen chair off the back porch
Date: Thu, 01 May 1997 15:04:55 -0400 (EDT)
From: Kilgour2@aol.com
Subject: Re:Sciortino Revisited
To: pianotech@byu.edu
Well, look at that. The Sciortino insta-coiler is the same idea, though
somewhat smaller. The Okada tool measures nearly 7 inches tall, though it
has no handle, and is pretty hefty. It takes up a lot of room in my
stringing kit. The Sciortino tool is considerably smaller, and it apparently
does the job well. Thanks for that information, Ted.
Martha
Date: Thu, 01 May 1997 15:22:17 -0500
From: ted@palmnet.net (Ted Simmons)
Subject: Re:Sciortino Revisited
To: pianotech@byu.edu
You're welcome, Martha. That's what we're here for.
Ted
>Well, look at that. The Sciortino insta-coiler is the same idea, though
>somewhat smaller. The Okada tool measures nearly 7 inches tall, though it
>has no handle, and is pretty hefty. It takes up a lot of room in my
>stringing kit. The Sciortino tool is considerably smaller, and it apparently
>does the job well. Thanks for that information, Ted.
>Martha
Date: Thu, 01 May 1997 14:54:47 -0500
From: atodd@UH.EDU (Avery Todd)
Subject: Antique Pianos (was Re: Nordheimer Piano)
To: pianotech@byu.edu
Paul,
I've always heard that there needed to be some design feature that
was a predecessor to the current design. With a piano, age alone does
not make an antique.
Avery
>>I wouldn't consider it an antique. It would have to be well
>>over 100 years old to qualify.
>>
>>Jim Coleman
>Jim and List,
>
>Perhaps it might be interesting to compile a list (from the list ;-) ) as
>to what attributes are required for a piano to BE qualified as an antique.
>Is it just age? I have my own thoughts, but am curious as to what the rest
>of the list thinks. What ya'll think?
>
>Paul E. Dempsey
Date: Thu, 01 May 1997 16:26:49 -0400 (EDT)
From: lesbart@juno.com (Leslie W Bartlett)
Subject: earplugs
To: pianotech@byu.edu
Some time ago there was a bunch of stuff on ear-plugs and tuning. I
mentioned ordering really expensive ones, saying I'd report on them.
Well, I got them, and couldnt' get them to fit. It has taken more than a
month to get back to the audiologist for a five minute opportunity to
recognize my stupidity, and put them in correctly.......
I tuned a 7' Young Chang today with them at a high school, preparing for
their spring musical. I tuned away amidst shouting, microphone checks,
even the crazies playing the radio for awhile, and found myself almost in
a different world. I have not had the opportunity to explore all the
different filters yet, but my first impression is that this will turn out
to have been a very good investment.
Leslie Bartlett
lesbart@juno.com
Date: Thu, 01 May 1997 14:01:57 -0700 (PDT)
From: "S. Brady" <sbrady@u.washington.edu>
Subject: Re: Difficult situations
To: pianotech@byu.edu
Hi Les,
I'd like to use this post as part of a Roundtable in the Journal,
if you don't mind.
Thanks,
Steve
On Wed, 26 Mar 1997, Leslie W Bartlett wrote:
> My wife and I just watched Dateline, and a story about a female high
> school teacher accused of seducing a 15 year-old boy. She was found
> guilty and spent some time in prison, though she still holds to her
> innocence.
>
> I am aware that we, as technicians, frequently find ourselves in homes
> with only one individual besides ourselves, often of the opporsite sex.
> "Sexual abuse" is flying around like wildfire today, reaching into homes,
> schools, and churches. Some of the accusations are founded, and many are
> not, being fabrications.
>
> What precautions should we, the self-employed, often the singular
> presence representing us, take to make sure that we don't find ourselves
> the focus of such problems? My wife, an elementary teacher, indicates
> that teachers throughout the age spectrum, have to go to extremes to
> protect themselves. I suspect we, as a group, have not been involved
> with this issue, but probably should be more aware of it and very careful
> that we protect ourselves.
>
> Case in point: I am scheduled to tune (first time) in the home of a band
> director in the school district for which I tune. The teacher indicated
> he wouldn't be there when I got there, but his daughter will be home,
> since she doesn't have sectionals that day. I now think it prudent to
> call and reschedule when an adult will be there.
>
> "Just because I'm paranoid doesn't mean they're NOT after me"............
> On the other hand, too safe is better than too sorry.
>
> Leslie Bartlett
>
>
Steve Brady, RPT
University of Washington
Seattle, WA
Date: Thu, 01 May 1997 14:05:35 -0700 (PDT)
From: "S. Brady" <sbrady@u.washington.edu>
Subject: Re: Difficult situations
<Pine.A41.3.95b.970501140049.80774A-100000@homer28.u.washington.edu>
To: pianotech@byu.edu
Oops! Sorry, that was supposed to be a private post. My apologies.
Steve Brady, RPT
University of Washington
Seattle, WA
Date: Thu, 01 May 1997 16:47:08 -0500
From: atodd@UH.EDU (Avery Todd)
Subject: Business Info Sources (long)
To: pianotech@byu.edu
List,
Please forgive me if this is too far off-subject but, with permission
granted to forward, I thought some of the information available at these
sites might be useful/interesting in your businesses.
Hope I'm right. My flame suit has already been packed up for the
summer. :-)
Avery
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\___/ \___/ T h e I n t e r n e t T o u r B u s \___/
Today's TOURBUS Topic: Serious Business
Welcome back to another week of TOURBUS! My wife and a friend have
decided to open a flower shop, and we've found that there's an
incredible wealth of information on the Net to help people who are
starting or running a business.
You can find startup tips, info on financing, competitive analysis,
lists of suppliers and a lot more. So I put together a list of what
I think are the most useful online resources for entrepreneurs,
inventors, investors, and business owners in today's issue.
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SBA Online - http://www.sbaonline.sba.gov
-----------------------------------------
If you're starting a small business, looking for financing or other help,
the U.S. Small Business Administration (SBA) contains a wealth of
resources for businesses.
Starting a Small Business - http://www.midnet.sc.edu/smbiz/smallbus.htm
-----------------------------------------------------------------------
A good place to start for information on starting a business. Help
on Business Ownership, Naming Your Business, Choosing a Location,
Insurance, Tax Issues, Licenses, and Record Keeping.
Hoover's Company Capsules - http://www.hoovers.com
--------------------------------------------------
Vacuum up a goldmine of business intelligence. Find profiles
for more than 10,000 companies with description, contact information,
Web links, the latest stock quotes, and more.
BigBook - http://www.bigbook.com
--------------------------------
Search a database of 16 million businesses for contact information, maps
and even driving directions to the establishment of your choosing.
Thomas Register Home Page - http://www.thomasregister.com
---------------------------------------------------------
Thomas Register on the Internet is the world's largest online industrial
buying source. Finding the product, service, or company you need is a
snap, since the entire database of the acclaimed Thomas Register of
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through 155,000 companies in the database classified under more than
55,000 product and service headings. Plus, more than 2,300 online
supplier catalogs give you 40,000 pages of detailed buying and specifying
information.
Better Business Bureau Online - http://www.bbb.org
--------------------------------------------------
The Better Business Bureau provides instant access to business and consumer
alerts as well as helpful resources. You can even file a complaint online.
BizWeb - http://www.bizweb.com
------------------------------
BizWeb brings together company listings and product catalogs from
around the Internet into one place. BizWeb wants to be the first stop
on your search for goods, services, and company information.
Quote.Com - http://www.quote.com
--------------------------------
Quote.com provides quality financial market data to Internet users,
including current quotes on stocks, options, commodity futures, mutual
funds, and indices, for U.S. and Canadian markets. Quote.com also
provides real-time business news, earnings forecasts & reports, market
analysis & commentary, and annual reports.
EDGAR - http://edgar.stern.nyu.edu
----------------------------------
Investors, lookie here. EDGAR stores files submitted by publicly traded
corporations to the Securities and Exchange Commission (SEC). New
York University and the SEC provide this data as a service to investors.
Blacklist of Internet Advertisers -
http://math-www.uni-paderborn.de/~axel/BL/blacklist.html
--------------------------------------------------------
Just what it sounds like - Unrepentant spammers are condemned to spend
eternity on this list. Good reading, both from a historical standpoint,
and for what NOT to do info.
U.S. Patent & Trademark Office - http://www.uspto.gov
-----------------------------------------------------
It's not who invents it - it's who gets to the Patent Office first that
matters. (Just ask the guy who really invented the telephone.) This
site offers searchable indexes on patents, legal material, patent
resources, technical information and much more.
Now you're armed with information - go out and make it big!
See you next time. --Bob
========================================================================
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All rights reserved. Redistribution is allowed only with permission.
Send this copy to 3 friends and tell them to get on the Bus!
_____________________________________
Avery Todd
Moores School of Music
University of Houston
Houston, TX 77204-4893
713-743-3226
atodd@uh.edu
http://www.uh.edu/music/
_____________________________________
Date: Thu, 01 May 1997 17:45:19 -0400 (EDT)
From: JIMRPT@aol.com
Subject: Who is the victim??
To: pianotech@byu.edu
Steve and Les, et al;
Last Thursday there was an accident on the corner by my shop and a person
was seriously injured. Two months ago there was an accident on the same
corner and at that time there was a person killed. So, I think that the
prudent thing to do would be to never use that corner because there have been
accidents that were serious there. Do you buy that reasoning? I feel that
it makes as much logical sense as either not going to an appointment "because
there is no adult there", or
"there will only be a woman there." If we do a lot of home service and only
went to homes where there were two or more people, at least one an adult, how
much home service would be done?
The solution to this problem? Conduct your business ethically and yourself
professionally and morally. With these attributes, along with common sense,
you will be able to conduct your business and life with little fear of being
falsely accused. And you will be able to go into any surroundings with
confidence that your record and reputation will provide all the references
you would ever need.
Just my thoughts.
Jim Bryant (FL)
Date: Fri, 02 May 1997 07:36:24 +0900
From: "Garret E. Traylor" <traylorg@kic.or.jp>
Subject: Performer archive: (Template & Reminder)
To: ptg-l@prairienet.org, pianotech@byu.edu
Reply-to: traylorg@kic.or.jp
<331B89E5.5501@kic.or.jp> <3341F837.42FB@kic.or.jp>
If you have prepared an instrument for an artist of note, please
consider passing along the name of the artist and any particular details
that might be of interest. Important information might include:
Performer, Concert Date, Location, Piano played on, Serial #, Tuning
used, Special types or names of instruments), or any other details you
find interesting. Please edit your story and keep it to modest length.
(One page preferred)
This would be a treasured thread for technicians in the future.
Sometime in the future I would like to consolidate your accounts,
narratives, tales, and yarns into some type of publication for the
memberships benefit. Photographs will be happily accepted if future
publication format permits.
IMPORTANT: Please title your post in the following manner in
order to facilitate easier scrutiny. The SUBJECT would be [Performer
archive] with the artist last name first and first name last.
IMPORTANT: Please title your post in the following manner in order to
facilitate easier scrutiny. The SUBJECT would be [Performer archive]
with the artist last name first and first name last.
--------------------------------------------
Subject: Performer archive: (Terrell, Shawn)
--------------------------------------------
Body of post would might be:
[Performer] Mr. Shawn Terrell
[Concert Date] October 11, 1996
[Location] Rosen Concert Hall, Appalachian State University Boone
N.C.
[Piano] Steinway Concert & Artist Piano
[Serial #] Serial #534
[Tuning Used] Well Temperament Thomas Young
[Program] Bach program: Sonatas...…
[Body] “The story you would like to share.”
--------------------------------------------
| Garret Traylor | Equal Temperament Piano Services | Okinawa Japan |
| Associate Member at Large | Washington DC Chapter Piano Technicians
Guild |
| E-mail: traylorg@kic.or.jp | Web-page: http://www.kic.or.jp/~traylorg/
|
| Snail Mail: PSC 482 Box 14 FPO, AP 96362-0014 |
--
Date: Thu, 01 May 1997 19:29:53 -0400 (EDT)
From: JElving@aol.com
Subject: Re: Glue collars
To: pianotech@byu.edu
In a message dated 97-05-01 00:26:07 EDT, Fred Sturm writes:
<< BTW, this particular piano demonstrates to me the fallacy of glue collars
in
general: the glue is tightly bonded to both shank and hammer molding, but
the
joint between shank and hammer hole had failed. The hammer isn't going to
fall off >>
In my experience it seems to be just the method of application. Not only
could it be too tight a fit to start with, but sometimes the drill leaves too
smooth a hole which does not accept the glue well. One of the reasons we
knurl the shanks is to make a rough shank to accept the glue better.
I'm not sure what type Kawai uses, but it seems to be the same as what is
used by several others. They all have a large collar. Sometimes, however, I
almost feel as though it's the glue itself. Certain pianos I have worked on
(which will remain nameless, but which are no longer manufactured) seem to
have the same type of glue, but in actuality, it most certainly appears to be
made of imitation library paste. Some of those pianos have glue bonds that
have failed everywhere the glue is applied.
Most of the pianos I now work on have no problems. Oh, occasionally, there
will be bonds that let loose on hammers and such, but the percentage is
pretty small. I thinks that is just part of the assembly line system that we
have which produces large quantities of pianos each year.
Just heard of the autos and their repair ratio per 100. The best American car
has 50 some repair problems per 100 cars produced. The worst, (a Korean car,
by the way), had 237 repair problems per 100 cars. Are the pianos we work on
that bad? I don't think most of them are.
By the way, I have had hammers that were hung using hot hide glue that had
pretty large collars. That glue chips with the same explosiveness and flies
into all parts of the action that are exposed (not to mention you clothes)!
John Elving, RPT
Sacramento, CA
Date: Thu, 01 May 1997 19:30:19 -0400 (EDT)
From: JElving@aol.com
Subject: Re: key recovering machine
To: pianotech@byu.edu
In a message dated 97-05-01 16:52:46 EDT, Avery Todd wrote:
<< I just called and talked to Merle Sanford and they use an old Oslund
machine they have had for years. She said as far as she knew, there was
no source for machines like you're referring to. You'll probably have to
make your own jig with router, etc. as has been mentioned. Sorry.
>>
Sam and others -
For this you might check out Charles A. Wilson, 1841 Kit Carson, Dyersburg,
Tennessee 38024 901-285-4046 (day) 901-285-2516 (night) e-mail:
twilson@ecis.net. He rebuilds the Oslund Key machines.
I personnally use the Spurlock jig that I made myself. Works great. Actually,
there is a second jig that cuts out the notches, leaving only MINOR finish
filing.
For a different jig system, check out the new Peterson Router Guide from
Peterson Piano Service, (801) 756-9786.
John Elving, RPT
Sacramento, CA
Date: Thu, 01 May 1997 19:36:12 -0400 (EDT)
From: Jon Page <jpage@capecod.net>
Subject: Re: Antique Pianos (was Re: Nordheimer Piano)
To: pianotech@byu.edu
I've heard that to qualify for antique status an object had to be at
least 125 years old.
Jon Page
Harwich Port, Cape Cod, Mass. (jpage@capecod.net)
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
>>>I wouldn't consider it an antique. It would have to be well
>>>over 100 years old to qualify.
>>>
>>>Jim Coleman
>
>>Jim and List,
>>
>>Perhaps it might be interesting to compile a list (from the list ;-) ) as
>>to what attributes are required for a piano to BE qualified as an antique.
>>Is it just age? I have my own thoughts, but am curious as to what the rest
>>of the list thinks. What ya'll think?
>>
>>Paul E. Dempsey
>
>
>
>
Jon Page
Harwich Port, Cape Cod, Mass. (jpage@capecod.net)
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
Date: Thu, 01 May 1997 17:41:22 +0000
From: Tom Cole <tcole@cruzio.com>
Subject: Re: Ivory replacement
To: pianotech@byu.edu
Reply-to: tcole@cruzio.com
Ted Simmons wrote:
>
> While we're on the subject of keytops, a piano I tuned yesterday had a
> half-dozen of the ivory fronts replaced and they each had that familiar
> grayish look. I could see dark spots through the keytops which I
> interpreted as gouges in the wood. The owner wanted to know if there was
> anything I could do about it. I explained that ivory is translucent and
> there should be a layer of white tape between the ivory and the wood key.
> I'm wondering if white lacquer or white leather dye would be o.k. I told
> the owner that I would do the repair at the next tuning. I'd like a method
> that doesn't involve a lot of waiting time for things to dry or cure. Any
> suggestions?
>
> Ted Simmons, Merritt Island, FL
>
> .-
Ted,
A method that I've used is to first paint the surface of the keystick under the ivory with
white correction fluid. It dries quickly while you're getting the glue ready (I use medium
viscosity CA glue on the key and accelerator on the keytop). If there are gouges in the
wood, you might fill any depressions with CA before painting on the white.
Good luck,
Tom
--
Thomas A. Cole, RPT
Santa Cruz, California
Date: Thu, 01 May 1997 21:29:03 -0400 (EDT)
From: ETomlinCF3@aol.com
Subject: Re: earplugs
To: pianotech@byu.edu
Leslie,
I also got the plugs...mine came with 25db filters. I found them to take out
too much sound and I will try the 15db filters next. What db level were your
filters? I have them in for driving and that is perfect. You turn the radio
up and the road noise goes away and you hear the radio clearly. It is worth
it just for that. Mine cost $89 thru my HMO. Do you know how much the
replacement filters may cost? Tuning with them was a little annoying. I
hope the 15db filters work better for that.
Ed Tomlinson
Tomlinson Tuning and Repair
<<
Some time ago there was a bunch of stuff on ear-plugs and tuning. I
mentioned ordering really expensive ones, saying I'd report on them.
Well, I got them, and couldnt' get them to fit. It has taken more than a
month to get back to the audiologist for a five minute opportunity to
recognize my stupidity, and put them in correctly.......
I tuned a 7' Young Chang today with them at a high school, preparing for
their spring musical. I tuned away amidst shouting, microphone checks,
even the crazies playing the radio for awhile, and found myself almost in
a different world. I have not had the opportunity to explore all the
different filters yet, but my first impression is that this will turn out
to have been a very good investment.
Leslie Bartlett >>
Date: Thu, 01 May 1997 21:29:19 -0400 (EDT)
From: ETomlinCF3@aol.com
Subject: Key Top machines
To: pianotech@byu.edu
Sam,
I had Charles Wilson make me a "home made" machine that is very much like the
old Oslund Machines. I got it and thought it looked aweful...then I used it
and it was perfect. I would recommend you call him. 901-285-4046. He
advertises in the PTG Journal.
Ed Tomlinson
Tomlinson Tuning and Repair
In a message dated 97-05-01 03:37:11 EDT, you write:
<<
Dear List:
Does anyone know where I can get a production style key recovering
machine?
I have a homemade jig made from PTG article, but I need something more
consistent. Any replies appreciated. Regards, Sam Grossner- Chicago
>>
Date: Thu, 01 May 1997 20:47:34 -0500
From: Danny Moore <danmoore@ih2000.net>
Subject: Re: Antique Pianos (was Re: Nordheimer Piano)
To: pianotech@byu.edu
Reply-to: danmoore@ih2000.net
Jon Page wrote:
I've heard that to qualify for antique status an object had to be at
least 125 years old.
I submit that the term "antique" is a nebulous concept in and of
itself. Consider, many motor vehicles over 20 years old are now
antiques. Price a '72 Cutlass Supreme convertable or '64 Impala SS, or
57 2 Dr. Hardtop, or . . . or . . . or . . .
I suggest that an object is an antique when it's collectors value is
greater than the value that would normally be attached to the item when
used as intended (Replacement cost less depreciation.)
In the case of a piano, when the antique dealers, collectors, etc. will
pay more for it than an artist/musician looking for an instrument to
perform on.
Just food for thought . . .
Danny Moore
Houston Chapter
Date: Thu, 01 May 1997 21:53:23 -0500
From: ted@palmnet.net (Ted Simmons)
Subject: Re: Ivory replacement
To: pianotech@byu.edu
Good idea, Tom. Thanks.
Ted
>A method that I've used is to first paint the surface of the keystick
>under the ivory with
>white correction fluid. It dries quickly while you're getting the glue
>ready (I use medium
>viscosity CA glue on the key and accelerator on the keytop). If there are
>gouges in the
>wood, you might fill any depressions with CA before painting on the white.
>
>Good luck,
>Tom
>--
>Thomas A. Cole, RPT
>Santa Cruz, California
Date: Thu, 01 May 1997 20:19:58 -0700
From: Tom Myler <TomMyler@worldnet.att.net>
Subject: Re: earplugs
To: pianotech@byu.edu
Leslie, Ed, and anybody-
I've had my plugs for about a year now. The 25db filters are useless for
tuning, way too much muting. And since I'm never really comfortable with
the plugs in (I'm always "aware" of them) I use regular old foam plugs for
driving use as Ed described it. So my audiologist took those filters
back for refund.
The 15db filters are better for tuning, but I find that they too are just a
little bit too much for fine tuning. After tuning with them, I will
usually do a quick double-check, and always find something that can use
improvement. However, I find the benefits of these plugs far outweigh the
disadvantages, always carry them, and almost always use them. If and
when a lower db filter becomes available, say 10 or 12db, I'll definitely
get some.
The biggest plus for having these plugs, and the aspect that surprised me
the most, is the way they cut out ambient noise and focus you on the
tuning. Just like Leslie said- talking, kids playing, sound checks,
vacuum cleaners, are all moved one step further back, to the point where
they can be ignored (or at least worked around). For this feature alone
they are priceless.
A while back, someone in the Journal compared a tuner wearing earplugs to a
pilot wearing sunglasses. The plugs reduce the "glare" in our ears. I
agree.
Send your checks for two cents to:
Myler, Tom
"Perhaps the greatest wisdom is the knowledge
of one's own ignorance"
John Steinbeck
Date: Thu, 01 May 1997 23:32:57 -0400 (EDT)
From: Bill Ballard <yardbird@sover.net>
Subject: Re: Re-Notch or No
To: pianotech@byu.edu
On 4/27/97, yardbird@sover.net wrote:
<<It''ll be easy for the rebuilder to lay a new cap in this one section
and give it 20th century notching. The unisons in this region have
certainly been tunable, if a little "restless". I'm inclined not to
perpetuate this mistake yet again
What bethinks this angus ("did I get that right") body.>>
A couple of days later...I know it's an obscure question with an obvious
answer. I did get one private response. And I also checked with Frank
Hanson (well-known up here in New England), who said without hesitation,
get rid of the old style notching, (to paraphrase, it might have been a
nice idea, but it wasn't much of a design feature.)
Angus? I had two responses on that. I was actually thinking of bulls,
bull sesions, and what they produce.
Bill Ballard RPT
NH Chapter
"Talking about music is like dancing about architecture"
Steve Martin
Date: Thu, 01 May 1997 20:12:12 -0700
From: Horace Greeley <hgreeley@leland.Stanford.EDU>
Subject: Re: Re-Notch or No
To: pianotech@byu.edu
Bill,
I have to demur.
First this kind of notching was done well into the 20th Cent.
Second, after spending years doing exactly as you plan, I sat down with my
good friend, John Walker, and spent a good deal of time thinking this
through. As a result, I have what I think is a bit of a different
perspective.
This is a minority view, with which anyone is free to disagree.
I don't change that bridge notching anymore.
I think that, for all of the problems that it clearly introduces into
tuning and voicing, the difference, _in some instruments_ makes the extra
work worthwhile in terms of better projection, and greater homogeneity of
the scale through that difficult 5th and 6th octave area.
Does this mean that I would not make the change in a non-performance
instrument? Frankly, I am not sure. It would depend a very great deal on
my overall impression of the instrument and its use.
So, with asbestos firmly in place, I have one question:
Was that the north end or the south end of the angus session?
Best to all.
Horace
>On 4/27/97, yardbird@sover.net wrote:
><<It''ll be easy for the rebuilder to lay a new cap in this one section
>and give it 20th century notching. The unisons in this region have
>certainly been tunable, if a little "restless". I'm inclined not to
>perpetuate this mistake yet again
>What bethinks this angus ("did I get that right") body.>>
>
>A couple of days later...I know it's an obscure question with an obvious
>answer. I did get one private response. And I also checked with Frank
>Hanson (well-known up here in New England), who said without hesitation,
>get rid of the old style notching, (to paraphrase, it might have been a
>nice idea, but it wasn't much of a design feature.)
>
>Angus? I had two responses on that. I was actually thinking of bulls,
>bull sesions, and what they produce.
>
>Bill Ballard RPT
>NH Chapter
>
>"Talking about music is like dancing about architecture"
> Steve Martin
Horace Greeley hgreeley@leland.stanford.edu
"The defining statistic of death is that it has a one to one ratio."
- George Bernard Shaw
LiNCS voice: 415/725-4627
Stanford University fax: 415/725-9942
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