At 12:26 PM 11/13/97 -0500, you wrote: >Wim; >In a message dated 11/13/97 9:43:16 AM, you wrote: > ><<"While the university sales might be deceptive, and perhaps not quite as >honest as we would like them to be">> > Wim isn't this akin to being a "little pregenant"? Either you is or you >ain't... either it is honest or it's not. > If stocks and bonds, or medical care, or even automobiles, were sold in the >same manner as 'some' University sales are held...everyone involved would go >to jail. You are right in that it should not matter to us whether the >customer was mislead or not when it is time to service the piano because 'we' >did not mislead the customer, did we? That being said even if your entire >chapter voted that the University sale was acceptable makes it no more >acceptable. From my standpoint >misrepresentation is misrepresentation and misrepresentation is wrong, >period. > Another word for misrepresentation is lying. > Jim Bryant (FL) Jim, List, Rather than snip for clarity and space, I'll suggest that the above post be read again before reading on.... Agreement from this end on for "most" of Jim's post, but perhaps I'm misunderstanding a part that might just be sarcasm. Jim said: "You are right in that it should not matter to us whether the customer was mislead or not when it is time to service the piano because 'we' did not mislead the customer, did we?" I thought that almost everything mattered, when dealing with a customer's perceptions of our trade. We may separate service from retail, but a lot of customers will lump all the piano people together if they feel like they've been deceived. >From Frank: " If we tolerate unfair or illegal practice, sooner or later we will become victims of it ourselves, and in many cases the law will hold us just as guilty as the perpetrators. " Tacit tolerance is usually looked at as endorsement. Wim said: "And no matter how it is done, for us as piano tuners, the more pinaos sold to the pulbic, the better it is for us." Well, now, there's the rub..... IS IT REALLY??? Nothing is better "for us" when it devalues our trade - business - livelihood by presenting a deceptive practice as being "normal". I'm a "participator" in University sales. I make a fair amount of money for our effort. Several facts about our efforts compared to some others: }The manufacturer "eats" a LOT of interest income for the whole school year in order to be a part of the event. In our case, Baldwin looses the potential on almost $100k, retail. That's not just "0ne or Two Pianos", as mentioned in another post. That's not insignificant. Do they make money when the product turns? Yep, that's why they bet on it. There's a balance there, though, that isn't always super - profitable. The Artist series would sell, anyway, and production doesn't always keep up with demand. }Our participation can involve lots of extra moving, prep, and break-in type work. We make sure the appropriate piano is in the office, class, rehearsal room, etc. We deal with the profs around the extra tunings that may be needed, and do all we can to protect the cabinet for the future owner. }We conduct the sale "on-site" AFTER the spring semester has ended (I understand some other sales don't wait), and schedule for the consideration of the music department. }Our advertising, from direct mail to print ads, lays it on the line. It has a brief description of the loaner program, and lets the public know just what dealer is involved. It is MY name, after all, and I plan on wearing it for a while. We give the buyers a descriptive brochure when they arrive at the event, and answer any and all questions about which pianos came from where, etc. I understand that a lot of events aren't promoted that way. (like the one my competitor pulled off two weeks before my last event... they never did say what university they were getting their pianos from) }The last three years of our program with the local university have generated a bucket of dollars and product for the music department. Just now, Del brings up another point: " Besides, my concern with these "University Sales" (and the "Armory Sales" that preceded them) is only partly with ethics ethics involved. Just think of the long term damage they are doing to the piano industry. Aside from demeaning the instrument in the eyes of the public, once these manufacturers and mass-marketers have their markets saturated, who is going to bring back the small, but important, dealers that have been wiped out in the process?" The "Armory" sales have proven to be rough on the market. Some university sales aren't good for the market, either. In our case, we've been impressed by how many of the new customers were just that... new. They had not really seriously considered buying a piano until the university opportunity came along. A lot of them were faculty, etc. Our first event "created" over twenty "new" piano students. In households that should have included music anyway. We feel comfortable with that. A lot of the other buyers were upgrading, and their used pianos went on to serve another household. That's OK, too. I could go on, with negative stuff about "other" programs, but that's not really the point. The POINT is, that we/you/us "consumers" should NOT put up with or ignore practices that are blatantly deceptive. It's not that we should tell our tuning customers all the poop about a particular sale or whatever, it's that we should let the dealer and/or manufacturer know how we feel about their method(s). To endorse bad business through tolerance IS bad business. "And no matter how it is done,"...... holy frijoles, man, REALLY?? Don't you CARE? Our code of ethics is pretty clear on that puppy. Promote, practice, fair... etc. Perhaps the technical of the next chapter meeting could be " READING the BACK of YOUR CARD". I let my competitor know how I felt about his boo-boo. I let the Dept. head of another university we service know what he wasn't getting from the dealer and manufacturer with his program (both out of town) I let the manufacturer for that out-of-town program know about the non-institutional, un-prepped pianos at that site. If I hadn't, then I would have at least been "approving", if not endorsing, deceptive business that hurts us all. Hurts us all. Hurts us all. Guy Nichols "All the water in the world can't sink a ship.......unless it gets on the inside." Ed Foreman
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