Soundboard backposts ??

Delwin D Fandrich pianobuilders@olynet.com
Thu, 2 Dec 1999 20:37:21 -0800


Richard,

I have not actually attempted this procedure myself, but I have run across
it from time to time -- see, there really is very little new under the sun.
Usually these things are in the form of wedges stuck in at various
intervals.  In no case have I found it to be particularly effective.  Not
even in an 1890's Steinway D.  The usual giveaway is the lack of fundamental
energy in the tone coupled with the lack of power.

Those ribs are tapered (feathered) at their ends for a reason.  You really
do need to have a somewhat moveable diaphragm to produce sound energy.

If you are still curious, I can only suggest that you do what I would do if
I were curious about such a thing -- try it.  Buy an old piano with a flat
soundboard.  That shouldn't be very hard or very expensive.  Stare at it for
a while, then cut some dowels -- or whatever -- and stick them in where it
seems appropriate.

Once you've determined that this isn't working you can take them back out
and try the soundboard spring idea.  These go directly behind the bridge.
My most successful procedure -- and the least complicated, overall -- was to
install a few blocks to the sides of the backposts centered right over the
bridge.  You'll want about 4 to 6 of them spaced along the length of the
tenor bridge and one or two behind the bass bridge.  Before these blocks go
on there is a hole drilled through them with a T-nut pressed in from the
soundboard side.  A long bolt is run through with the head toward the
outside.  Double nut the ends of the bolts with large fender washers between
the two nuts.  This makes the spring adjustable.  Felt the end of the bolt
and washer assembly so the spring does not buzz.  You will probably also
want to fill the spring with some loose wool felt so it doesn't ring.  You
will want to choose springs that will exert about 50 to 100 lbs (22.5 to 45
kg) of force against the soundboard when they are compressed from about 1/4
to 1/3 of their maximum height.  As I recall, the springs that I normally
used were about 35 to 40 mm long (uncompressed).  Put a small wood block on
the soundboard for the spring to rest against along with a piece of hard
felt or leather to cushion it.  Bolt the blocks against the backposts and
crank away.

Start by compressing the springs -- all of them -- to about 90% of their
uncompressed height and go for a listen.  Then try some more, and listen
again.  Soon you'll get the idea if this is what you want and if they are
doing any good.  Or just making the thing less bad.

I'm sure I've forgotten a few details in the above description, but I hope
you get the idea.

After you've played with them for a while you'll know if they are doing what
you want.  If they do, leave them.  If you don't like them, you can always
take them off and replace the soundboard, which is probably what you should
have done in the first place.  But you will have learned something in the
process.

Regards,

Del
Delwin D Fandrich
Piano Designer & Builder
Hoquiam, Washington  USA
E.mail:  pianobuilders@olynet.com
Web Site:  http://pianobuilders.olynet.com/

-------------------------------------------------------------------

----- Original Message -----
From: Richard Brekne <richardb@c2i.net>
To: <pianotech@ptg.org>
Sent: Thursday, December 02, 1999 12:19 PM
Subject: Re: Soundboard backposts ??


> Del... As usual you are up to your informative best.. many thanks indeed.
I had
> no idea that anything like this had ever been serioiusly considered. Food
for
> thought as far as it goes.
>
> I am wondering about one thing tho.. You mention that solid posts would
mean
> that the strings would be required to move the back posts (beams) as well
as the
> sound board to produce any energy (sound). Just how big an effect would a
few
> square inches over the whole of the soundboard have ?? Wouldnt the rest of
the
> board be free to vibrate.... and wouldnt energy take the path of least
> resistance ??
>
> These are at least the jist of the arguments presented to me by my
counterpart
> in this discussion we had, (are still having..grin) And I am not
informed...well
> enough read, nor experienced to authoritivly counter these. If you have
the
> time... grin..
>
> Thanks again Del..
>
> Richard Brekne
> I.C.P.T.G.  N.P.T.F.
> Grin.. Now Head Technician for the University of Bergen (patting myself on
the
> shoulder a bit)
> Bergen, Norway
>
>
>
> Delwin D Fandrich wrote:
>
> > ----- Original Message -----
> > From: Richard Brekne <richardb@c2i.net>
> > To: <pianotech@ptg.org>
> > Sent: Wednesday, December 01, 1999 2:04 PM
> > Subject: Soundboard backposts ??
> >
> > > Hi list..
> > >
> > > Got into a discussion today with another piano tech which prompted me
to
> > > put the following question to you experts out there.
> > >
> > > Given an old beater with a flat soundboard, perhaps a bit of negative
> > > crown... What would the effect be of glueing in wood pieces between
the
> > > ribs and the back frame beams to force and hold the soundboard into a
> > > artificial crown ??
> > >
> > > sounds off the wall, I know... but I am curious to hear your
responses.
> > >
> > > Richard Brekne
> > > I.C.P.T.G.  N.P.T.F.
> > > Bergen, Norway
> >
>
> -------------------------------------------------------------------------
> >
> > Richard,
> >
> > Crown, by itself, is not the issue.  It is the relationship between the
> > strings and the soundboard.  To function as a transducer, the soundboard
> > must be able to move in response to the vibrating energy in the string.
> > Putting a solid coupler between the backpost and the soundboard would
> > (could) force a curve into the soundboard, but I'd hardly call it crown.
> > Now the string will have to move both the soundboard and the backpost to
> > create any sound energy.  Backposts are often fairly difficult to move.
> >
> > Garold Beyer has replied with a reference to the old practice of
installing
> > springs between the backposts and the soundboard at strategic spots.
This
> > was a bit of a fad back in the mid 1960's and the early 1970's.  Several
> > rebuilders, myself included, had been experimenting with this notion
from
> > time to time.  I installed these devices -- the best were 1957 Corvette
> > progressively wound valve springs -- on several old upright and grand
pianos
> > with varying degrees of success.  (Actually, there was nothing magic
about
> > 1957 Corvette valve springs.  I had owned one and at one time had
replaced
> > the heads.  I had a few of the old springs floating around.)
> >
> > The practice was eventually ridiculed out of existence by the more
> > traditional and more "respected" members of the trade as being a
> > non-professional repair, but I have come back to the idea several times
over
> > the years.  I guess I am non-professional enough to wonder just what the
> > dynamics of the process are.  And to not worry overly much about what
> > tradition thinks of some of my strange ideas.  Were I doing the same
type of
> > rebuilding today that I did then I would probably still be experimenting
> > with them.
> >
> > As for not being "professional," well, I put soundboard springs into the
> > same category as all of the CA pinblock repairs I read about.  And the
same
> > principle applies: Yes, the piano needs a new pinblock (soundboard), but
for
> > a nominal amount of money -- compared to a new pinblock (soundboard) --
this
> > repair will effect some improvement and possibly postpone the inevitable
for
> > a few more years.  It will not tune (sound) as well (good) as a properly
> > remanufactured instrument, but it will be better than it was. And for a
lot
> > less money.
> >
> > Regards,
> >
> > Del
> > Delwin D Fandrich
> > Piano Designer & Builder
> > Hoquiam, Washington  USA
> > E.mail:  pianobuilders@olynet.com
> > Web Site:  http://pianobuilders.olynet.com/
>
>
>
>



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