Bassplaying and tuning tuning guitars

[Richard Moody]

----- Original Message -----
From: Ola Andersson <pianoola9@hotmail.com>

>It is fun to tell
> people when I finish to tune this piano there isn't a single note intune.
> Maybe we shouldn't call us tuners but "out of tuners".

The art of tuning out of tune and still sounding musical is called
tempering.  So perhaps we should be called "temperers", or since we tune
temperaments maybe we should be called "temperamentalists".

I am wondering if instrumentalists are using electronic tuners for their
notes.  If the guitar tunes all his open strings to the "pocket tuner"  all
of the  fifths and fourths are tempered. Unless the ear is trained to hear
that, the machine tunings do give a  guitar tuning subtly different than the
ear.  The b would be tempered to the g thus making the e'  a little higher
than if all six notes tuned justly.  After all the frets are "equally
proportioned" which produces ET from one note to the next going up the neck.
All the more reason the open strings should be tuned to ET.
    I am not a guitar player so there may be reasons other than these
dictated by the actual playing demands.  ---ric

PS   E--A--d--g--b--e'     the guitar strings.


To: <pianotech@ptg.org>
Sent: Monday, May 15, 2000 11:41 AM
Subject: Bassplaying and tuning


> I have been tuning for a year now and learned everything mainly from this
> list.  With me I have 25 years of bass playing experiencer and I would
like
> to chear my view  of a temprement. There are some wrong spellings here but
I
> don't care.
>
> Stretch.
> I have noticed two kinds of stretch.
> First playing in a rock or Jazz band with guitarist there no tuning
> problems. The guitars tune with little stretch and has low 5ths. I can
> sometimes here if a Doublebass player is classical trained (pure 5ths) or
> started as a electricbass player (low 5ths).
> The problem comes when playing classical. The violins and cellos tune pure
> 5ths and strech the octavs. I tune fourths and get very streched fourths.
To
> be in tune I often tune to the notes I hear in the orchestra instead of
> tuning my strings compared to my "A". The biggest problem is the low E
> string, when the cello tune the cello 3 pure 5ths down from an "A" it gets
> very low. When playing a pure E in a C chord the bass is much to high
> compared to the cello wich has tuned and intonated low. So to get the bass
> in tune. for the symfoni orchstra I have to strech the fourths twice the
> amount of ET (I beleave). I also heard cello player tune temered  5ths but
> not as low as in ET.
>
> Temprement:
> When playing without piano or tempered instruments I try to play pure to
the
> key I'm playing in.I mean I try to intonate A diffrently if it is  a
third,
> seventh, fith or a first not. Playing blues or Norwigian folkmusic the
major
> third should be lower than pure and the 5th pure. Guitars has there own
> intonating also. Keyboards we know about. The trumpet players MilesDavis
and
> Don Cherry had there own way to intonate giving a flavour to the Orchestra
> sound like sugar in the tea.
>
> Conclution:
> I found ET  to be out of tune. If I tune the piano and find it equal out
of
> tune then I know I have an ET. If there is some thing purer there are
> something wrong as long as I didn't try to tune a HT. Tuning a piano is a
> compromize and ET is the same kind of compromize as HT. It is fun to tell
> people when I finish to tune this piano there isn't a single note intune.
> Maybe we shouldn't call us tuners but "out of tuners".
>
> This doesn't mean I always get my doublebass to play the note I wan't or
the
> piano to sound pefect ET or HT but I try. Just wanted to chear a
bassplayers
> point of view to a techs.
>
> Hope nobody gets pissed, because that was not the point.
>
> Ola Andersson
> Bergen
> Norway
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