temperament

[Richard Moody]

----- Original Message -----
From: <A440A@AOL.COM>
To: <pianotech@ptg.org>
Sent: Friday, November 17, 2000 4:15 AM
Subject: Re: temperament



> Greetings,
>    They recognize a Kirnberger just by walking up to the keyboard and
playing > a C triad.  Recognizing the Kirnbergers are relatively easy
because there is
> a Just C-E third in the III and Just G-B and F-A in his earlier ones.  You
> don't often find this arrangement in other temperaments, except the
meantones)

Yes that is the way as a player I would distinguish temperaments. Playing
intervals and chords one at at time, holding them, and listening to the
results. Never-the-less in music as in listening to music at tempo, these
distinctions of temperament  seem to disapear.  Execpt perhaps when
"compromised intervals" happen to be played and only when held as in half
notes or longer.  Whom ever is able to distinquish better than this is
welcome to demonstrate.   If it is claimed to be subliminal that too must be
acceptible.

    Getting back to Kirnberger III  with a just c-e-g  triad I am curious to
know if it is all just.  Or if c--g is tempered narrow but with c--e   being
pure which is the beginning of Meantone.  You mention his earlier ones,
where g--b and f--a is just.  Actually that is Meantone unless the remaining
5ths are tempered so that there will not be a wolf 5th.  If this is the case
what 5ths are tempered and how much, and what are the musical implications?
Are there verbal descriptives that indicate a "tonal palette" that
distinguishes K III  from true 1/4 comma meantone tonal palete? ---ric


>
> >Or if three instruments are tuned  to Kirnberger,
> >Young and Prelleur, they could point out which instrument is tuned to
which
> >temp?
>
>     Hmm,  I dunno about that.  The Young and Prelleur are not very
> dissimilar, and it would take a more practised ear than my own to
distinguish
> between them during play.  However,  judging the ability of ears to
> distinguish between temperaments is mainly of academic interest.  Of more
> importance is the effect on the pianist and the amount of contrast in the
> music.
>    Pianists often comment on how a well tempered piano seems to have power
> steering. There is a clarity in there that is usually the first thing
> noticed.  And why not?  WTs have tucked some of the dissonance away in a
> remote corner,  making the harmony more consonant almost everywhere else
in
> the music.
>
> Ric again:
> Of course I am not going to say "because I can't tell the difference no
> one else can" but for people like me who are curious, certainly it should
be
> easy to assertain who does and who does not have this ability.  More
> importantly, can this ability be developed, or through training can a
person
> acquire this ability?
>
>    Yes, the sensitivity to temperament can be developed.  I did, so I know
> that anybody can.  There is one requirement; the tunings have to be
listened
> to.  ET has to be avoided for a while, so that it shows its tonal
character
> when you return and listen to it again.  It took me over a week of no-ET
> listening before I was struck by the sound of ET. At that point, I had
> acquired a new perspective: an epiphany that I hadn't expected.
>     As far as distinguishing between the various temperaments,  that is
> difficult, since these differences are often less than what a pianist can
> create through their own ideas of "expression",(like, how edgy should that
> passage in F# be played?  The extra 6 cents in the thirds is just one
> component of the musical impression).
>
>  >We know pitch recognition seems to be innate, as compared to the
ablility
> to recognize intervals which must be acquired through training.   Perhaps
an
> evaluation procedure might provide some answers and stimulate new and
wider
> interest in the topic of temperament<<
>
>       I hope so,  and we are trying.  That is why I am saying hang on
until
> the next temperament CD ("Six Degrees") comes out.  There is one track on
it
> in ET,  it is the very last one.  I believe that the ET sound will be
> recognizable after listening to 8 preceding tracks of various
temperaments.
> At least, that is the intention. (This subject will be easier to discuss
when
> we have an actual artifact to compare our perspectives on).
> Regards,
> ED Foote RPT