Pitch Raise Sequence 160+ FLAT!!

Charly Tuner charly_tuner@hotmail.com
Sun, 10 Sep 2000 09:19:18 PDT


I tuned a customer's 1975 K & C spinet yesterday...it was nearly OFF the 
scale at 164 Cents Flat!!! I told the customer that even though the strings 
are in good condition, that there would be a very real chance of mutliple 
string breakage, during the pitch raise sequence. He said to go ahead, and 
we'll hope for the best. So i computed the 1/3 OVER-pull in the treble, and 
a little less in the tenor, then brought up the bass. NO broken strings!! 
The treble area was flatter than i have EVER encountered, at 163-170 cents 
flat. Here's the neat part; I was able to get it close enough to fine tune 
after just ONE pass! I was astonished to see that the pitch dropped right 
into the ballpark across the board. So I finished the tuning, eased a few 
sticking keys, vacuumed out the piano, and booked another tuning in 6 
months.

Terry Peterson
Los Angeles, CA
Associate Member, PTG


>From: "Brian Trout" <btrout@desupernet.net>
>Reply-To: pianotech@ptg.org
>To: <pianotech@ptg.org>
>Subject: Re: Pitch Raise Sequence
>Date: Sun, 10 Sep 2000 10:36:26 -0400
>
>FWIW,
>
>I don't get real excited about most of the top octave moving about on me.
>The parts of the piano that change pitch the most during a pitch raise 
>(very
>generally speaking) are the strings that rest on the most flexible, most
>moving parts of the soundboard.  The board doesn't move a whole lot up 
>there
>in that top octave in comparison with the middle of the keyboard.  It
>doesn't usually move very dramatically in the low bass either.
>
>If the piano is really that far off, like a whole step, or more, I don't
>usually plan on getting it that close in one pass.  I start with seeing
>where it is, overall, and doing an extremely fast aural tuning, raising A4 
>a
>few beats above 440, (how much depends on some variables.)  Tune the 
>(quick)
>temperament between C3 and C4, and head on up through the treble quickly
>tuning fair sounding fifths and beating octaves, up until about the last
>octave which I tune by pretty standard octaves.  Then normal octaves down
>through the bass.  All of this happens in just a few minutes, 10 or 15,
>maybe.  To me, it's not worth getting out the ETD for this part.  Takes too
>long.
>
>Once I get it to this point, I get out the laptop and go at it.  Usually,
>one more pass quickly, and one more (sometimes partial pass) a little more
>thoroughly will get it pretty good.  (I can certainly do it all aurally,
>too.  We're not putting in heart valves here, folks.)
>
>We as tuner types tend to get kind of 'up tight' about A440, at pitch
>pianos that started a LONG way from there.  Even with the best of efforts, 
>a
>full step pitch raise won't be as stable as a piano that's been tuned at
>A440 every 3 months for the last 10 years.  Our best efforts are certainly
>an improvement, but an example I sometimes use (mostly for people who work
>on their cars) is this.  If you have your oil changed every 2000 miles, and
>you pull the dipstick a few miles after an oil change, it'll probably be
>very clean.  If you drive your car for 60,000 miles and never change your
>oil, then change it once and after just a very few miles, pull the 
>dipstick,
>even your new oil will not be nearly as clean as the oil in the other guys
>car that changed his faithfully every 2000 miles, in fact it'll probably be
>pretty dirty.  Just like in changing the oil, a tuning now is certainly in
>order, and will indeed help.  But today's tuning won't undo 10 years of
>neglect in a two hour service call.  We'll go from here with a plan for
>regular service, and over the next several tunings, the piano will become
>more stable and more likely to stay closer to pitch.
>
>That's all.  I refuse to intimidate a customer by telling them how terrible
>they are for neglecting their piano.  (They might have just gotten it.)
>Almost all will ask when they should have it tuned again, regardless of how
>long it's been since the last tuning.  I recommend they have it tuned a
>minimum of once a year, more often if they are able.  (Some are not able.)
>If they can, I especially recommend that if it's been a major pitch
>adjustment, that they not wait more than a few months if they can manage 
>it.
>But it's up to them.  No lectures, no sermons.  I'll call them to remind
>them if they want me to.
>
>In other words, relax.  Enjoy the ride.  After a 200 cent pitch raise, the
>average customer will be ecstatic with your tuning, even if it did sag a 
>bit
>someplace.
>
>Best wishes,
>
>Brian Trout
>Quarryville, PA
>btrout@desupernet.net
>
>
>
>----- Original Message -----
>From: Ron Nossaman <RNossaman@KSCABLE.com>
>To: <pianotech@ptg.org>
>Sent: Sunday, September 10, 2000 9:08 AM
>Subject: Re: Pitch Raise Sequence
>
>
> > >      Yes, I think so.  But how much?  I dunno.   I was not sticking to
> > >proven numbers, just general directions.  Bringing up a piano 25 cents
>from
> > >the middle or bottom will drop the top end, but I haven't seen the very
>top
> > >be too sensitive to the change.  I will admit to not measuring, so this
>will
> > >wait till my next major pitch raise, (which means, my next new
>customer...)
> > >   I will tune the C88 dead on before I do anything, and see where it
>goes
> > >during the raise.
> > >Thanks,
> > >Ed
> >
> > Excellent! It's about time someone did this. It's my impression too, 
>that
> > the high end doesn't drop much during the pitch raise, but then I never
> > measured it either. I'm curious to hear what you find.
> >
> > Ron N
> >
>



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