To tune or not to tune?

[Paul]

Yes I do, but only under certain circumstances.

Paul Chick
----- Original Message -----
From: David Ilvedson <ilvey@jps.net>
To: pianotech <pianotech@ptg.org>
Sent: Wednesday, April 04, 2001 11:24 PM
Subject: Re: To tune or not to tune?


> >I hope you don't do free estimates.
>
> I agree!  Do any techs on the List give free estimates?
>
> David.
>
>
>
> >
> >----- Original Message -----
> >From: "pryan2" <pryan2@the-beach.net>
> >To: <pianotech@ptg.org>
> >Sent: Wednesday, April 04, 2001 7:41 PM
> >Subject: To tune or not to tune?
> >
> >
> >> This week (and it's only Thursday) I have been called out to tune three
> >> un-tunable (upright) pianos which the owners indicated on the phone
> were
> >> tunable, even though they were 80 to 100 years old.  When I arrived at
> >the
> >> homes, the pianos were wrecks with the expected rust, corrosion, and
> rot.
> >> To these owners, a tuning meant a rebuild.  In each case, I left
without
> >> tuning.  How can I avoid this in the future?  Is there a number of
> >years-old
> >> that you will not go out for a tuning?  How do I  weed out the tunable
> >> pianos from the un-tunable pianos on the phone?
> >>
> >> Phil Ryan
> >> Miami Beach, FL
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >> ----- Original Message -----
> >> From: "David Love" <davidlovepianos@hotmail.com>
> >> To: <pianotech@ptg.org>
> >> Sent: Wednesday, April 04, 2001 1:38 AM
> >> Subject: Re: Pin fluids..was-- Bridge caps
> >>
> >>
> >> >
> >> > Jim:
> >> >
> >> > Would you then consider using varnish as driving fluid on a
> restringing
> >> job
> >> > where you are reusing the old block?  With what effect?
> >> >
> >> > David Love
> >> >
> >> > >From: JIMRPT@AOL.COM
> >> > >Reply-To: pianotech@ptg.org
> >> > >To: pianotech@ptg.org
> >> > >Subject: Pin fluids..was-- Bridge caps
> >> > >Date: Wed, 4 Apr 2001 01:00:58 EDT
> >> > >
> >> > >
> >> > >In a message dated 4/03/2001 10:41:07 PM, Dale wrote:
> >> > >
> >> > ><<"I've wondered about driving fluids
> >> > >
> >> > >as well but have not used them.">>
> >> > >
> >> > >Dale a Cuba Libre ain't bad on a warm day and...... it sho makes
> >working
> >> > >less
> >> > >painful! :-)
> >> > >
> >> > >  Undoubtedly you will get several "opinions" in this thread so
> here's
> >> > >mine....OK?
> >> > >A good pin driving aid will contain 3(?) qualities and these are:
> >> > >1.) ease of use/application.
> >> > >2.) consistency of results.
> >> > >3.) aid in stringing effort.
> >> > >
> >> > >  My favorite weapon of choice is Spar Varnish because it is:
> >> > >1.) easy to use/apply. (little dab'll do you and too much won't
> effect
> >> long
> >> > >term results.
> >> > >2.) gives verrry consistent results.
> >> > >3.) makes stringing sooo much easier (particuarly if you use a T
> >handle
> >> > >like
> >> > >I do.
> >> > >
> >> > >  The varnish acts as a sealer/lubricant while it is still wet and
as
> >a
> >> > >sealer/ snap retardant when it is dry. Turning pins in a wet
pinblock
> >> > >treated
> >> > >with varnish is aprox 1/4 to 1/3 easier than turning them when the
> >block
> >> is
> >> > >dry.
> >> > >
> >> > >
> >> > >  <<"I'm using buldoc/stwy blocks in all
> >> > >
> >> > >stwys/Rebuilds and the pins are hard to drive and no matte how
> >> consistently
> >> > >
> >> > >I drill I.E. same speed,pressure and air cooling there will always
be
> >> some
> >> > >
> >> > >tortional inconsistencies.  That being said I mostly like how they
> >> tune.">>
> >> > >
> >> > >  The five ply blocks you are using are very good blocks...but like
> >most
> >> > >things they do have some drawbacks chief of which is what mayyyy be
> >> termed
> >> > >soft spotitis.
> >> > >  This happens when two or more layers of the pinblock have 'soft'
> >spots
> >> > >lined
> >> > >up vertically. The result of this is that when you drill the holes
> >they
> >> > >will
> >> > >be a trifle larger in the 'soft spots' then in the relatively
> 'harder'
> >> rest
> >> > >of the block...........also these 'soft spots' will not hold a pin
> >with
> >> the
> >> > >same force as will the 'harder' portions of the plank....this
results
> >in
> >> > >your
> >> > >"tortional inconsistencies'. Just the way things are with these
> >> > >blocks...don't mean they are 'bad'. Short of hand picking ass'td
size
> >> pins
> >> > >for preselected holes I don't know any cure for this symptom.
> >> > >
> >> > >In a 5 ply block with two soft spots together this "spotitis" will
> >effect
> >> > >aprox. 40% of the pin length...or if the first 4 layers are all that
> >are
> >> > >contacted it will effect aprox. 50% of the pin length....how much
> this
> >> will
> >> > >effect the "inconsistencies" you are speaking of is relative to the
> >rest
> >> of
> >> > >the block.
> >> > >
> >> > >  If'n y'all likes the way dey tune, and all the other parameters of
> >> > >stability, etc. are there, then keep on  keepin on.
> >> > >
> >> > >
> >> > >    <<"My question is this. For those of you who are using maple
> >blocks
> >> and
> >> > >
> >> > >driving fluids ,do you think it affects tuning smoothness, changes
> >> > >tortional
> >> > >
> >> > >values or is it just a way to make driving a pin easier.  My
> >> > >srtinger(Terry)
> >> > >
> >> > >is a little five ft. Italian gal and although plenty fiesty would
> >> > >appreciate
> >> > >
> >> > >any help in the  driving each new One ought pins into freshly bored
> >> > >maple.:>>
> >> > >
> >> > >  Varnish treated blocks definitely have fewer 'snappers' than do
non
> >> > >treated
> >> > >blocks,.....in my experience. Driving in the pins is much easier and
> >> > >setting
> >> > >coils, applying tension and chipping are all easier by 'far' while
> the
> >> > >varnish is still at least damp.
> >> > >1/0 pins??? Why do you use 1/0 pins? In my opinion 1/0 pins add a
> >measure
> >> > >of
> >> > >flagpoling/twistyness that I don't like, but if there is a gooood
> >reason
> >> > >for
> >> > >using them I might reconsider my thoughts here.
> >> > >
> >> > >
> >> > >
> >> > >   <<"Also if driving fluid changed slightly the pin torque and
> >allowed
> >> for
> >> > >
> >> > >smoother rendering that would be fine.">>
> >> > >
> >> > >  Dale, treating or not treating the pins/pinblock has absolutely
> >nothing
> >> > >to
> >> > >do with string rendering other than making the tuning pin easier to
> >> > >manipulate. However that being said I will contradict myself and say
> >that
> >> > >having to fight the pin less will allow you to 'feel' the rendering
> >much
> >> > >better....or is that what you meant?
> >> > >
> >> > >
> >> > >
> >> > ><<"The finest tuning piano in the world
> >> > >
> >> > >is an old steinway thats never yet been restrung. You know the kind
> >,well
> >> > >
> >> > >preserved and unadulterated.  The pin torque is so even and the
> tuning
> >> ends
> >> > >
> >> > >up being so stable because the pin doesn't wrestle with the
> >tuner!!!!">>
> >> > >
> >> > >Betcha a LARGE cup of coffee that this pinblock was treated with
> >varnish
> >> > >during stringing...wanna bet? :-)
> >> > >My opinion.
> >> > >Jim Bryant (FL)
> >> > >p.s. Do a test for yourself....take a scrap piece of
> pinblock....drill
> >> > >three
> >> > >holes...
> >> > >drill one hole 17/64ths and two holes 1/4"..............(adjust for
> >your
> >> > >favorite sizing/feel).....in the 17/64 and first 1/4
> >> hole..........install
> >> > >2/0 pins to the level where they would normally be after
> chipping/coil
> >> > >setting/tapping.......in the last 1/4 hole (for the test only) wet a
> >> small
> >> > >piece/wad of paper towel with spar varnish and push through the
> >pinblock
> >> > >with
> >> > >a hammer shank...install the pin to the same level as the other two
> >> pins(be
> >> > >sure and mark the holes as to which is what:).  Immediatetly try
> >turning
> >> > >the
> >> > >pins starting with the 17/64 and ending with the treated
> >pin.......wait
> >a
> >> > >few
> >> > >hours and try turning the pins again....set the test aside for a
week
> >or
> >> so
> >> > >and then try the pins again...let us know what you find OK?
> >> > >
> >> > >
> >> >
> >> > _________________________________________________________________
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> >> >
> >> >
> >>
>
>
>