Towards Pure(er) 5ths in ET

[Kevin E. Ramsey]

    Richard, with all due respect, I think you're wrong on this one. Fifth's
are normally narrow, and fourths are expanded; therefore, if your fourths
are beating too much, your fifths are too wide. Also, the fourths are
supposed to beat, if they don't, then your fifths will, (in ET, at least.) I
think what Jim meant to say was that your fifths might be a little on the
wide side if your fourths are beating too rapidly. The test for a pure fifth
would be a major tenth compared to a major sixth, both having an equal beat.
Hope to meet you someday soon, sorry I didn't when you were here in AZ.


Kevin E. Ramsey
ramsey@extremezone.com
----- Original Message -----
From: "Richard Moody" <remoody@midstatesd.net>
To: <pianotech@ptg.org>
Sent: Monday, April 09, 2001 9:55 PM
Subject: Towards Pure(er) 5ths in ET


>
>
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: Jim Coleman, Sr. <pianotoo@imap2.asu.edu>
> To: pianolover 88 <pianolover88@hotmail.com>
> Cc: <pianotech@ptg.org>
> Sent: Monday, April 09, 2001 3:45 PM
> Subject: measuring FAC on SAT
>
>
> | For example, I measured the A4 stretch number of an Acrosonic spinet
> to be
> | 8.2. Then I tuned the note 1/2 step flat, reset the A4 to that pitch
> for
> | its A5 reading, then measured the stretch number at A6. It became
> 9.1.
> | That is quite a difference and will give a different tuning. As a
> matter
> | of fact it will be very close to a pure 5ths Equal Temperament.
> |
> | Jim Coleman, Sr.
> |
>
> Jim, List
>     I have been intrigued with the "pure 5ths ET" ever since Jim
> proposed it back in 96 (on this list at least), experimenting with it
> both in spread sheet calculations and actual tuning.  Then three years
> ago I  got to spend a couple of  afternoons with Jim in Phoenix and on
> one of those I was chigrinned to have my temperament evalulated as
> having 4ths too wide.
> This was pointed out as in the old days of learning..."these beats are
> a little fast.....". and all of a sudden I heard them.
>     However the 5ths to me sounded within the parameters I had always
> been trained, I realized if Jim said my 4ths were too wide, that meant
> my 5ths were too narrow.
>     I had never been trained to use fourths during the tuning
> procedure but after visiting Jim, I thought if they are used for
> checks perhaps I might try using them to actually tune. I  tried few
> pitch raises tuning by 4ths and found it faster and more accurate than
> using 5ths.  If they  (4ths) beat they ain't right.  The trick is to
> get them on the sharp side without beats.  At any time during this
> "4ths tuning" is is permissible to do a quick check of the 3rds.
>     The other aspect of making  4ths less wide means the 5ths will be
> closer to pure.  To make a long story short,  I seem to get purer 5ths
> (by paying extra attention to getting pure 4ths then nudging slightly
> sharp) with no noticible change in the variation of 3rds and 10ths.
> And I do like this sound.  I don't know if this is due to the
> realities of inharmonicity  or higher tension scales of modern
> os.     ---ric
>