I have not purchased a salvage Steinway for rebuilding. My understanding is that most salvage Steinways - models M through D - can be purchased for between $5,000 and $10,000 in most areas of the USA. Perhaps a bit more for a real nice art-case. You suggest most unrestored Steinways (are we talking salvage here - as in needing complete rebuilding to perform like new?) go for as much or more than a new Yamaha C3 - so we are talking more than $20,000 for a typical rebuildable Steinway? And then the restored Steinway sells for 50-60% more, i.e. $30,000 to $32,000? How do you completely rebuild a Steinway for $10,000 to $12,000 or less? I think most fees from competent rebuilders that do a reputable job will range from perhaps $15,000 to $25,000 or so for what most would consider a complete rebuilding job - of course it depends on all that is done to the piano - new soundboard or not, etc. It doesn't seem to me that the numbers add up here. Terry Farrell ----- Original Message ----- From: "Tom Servinsky" <tompiano@gate.net> To: <pianotech@ptg.org> Sent: Monday, July 30, 2001 9:35 AM Subject: Re: Steinway > Terry, > You are missing the point. How many products, useful daily products, have > you bought for home and personal enjoyment which have maintained it's > original cost or appreciated in it's value? Any value! > The $45,00 Lexus 400, the $85 toaster, $900 kitchen table, or how about the > $28,000 22 ft I/O boat you just couldn't live without? Very few items built > for this world economy can stand up to the Steinway legacy. Definitely,not > a Story & Clark grand. > I do know that if it weren't for Steinway pianos many rebuilders and > remanufactures would not be able to have the type of successful business as > they do. The Steinway piano, both used and new, has supported many > successful businesses for the past century. > Everyone who plays the piano has been "brain washed" that Steinway is and > has always been the greatest piano institution ever built. It was designed > and built it right from the first day and have changed very little ever > since ( aside from the CBS years). There's ample proof Steinway has > withstood the test of time ( 2 world wars, great depression,etc) and has > continued to build a fine product. Again, many can argue the down and > dirty truths of the "real" going's on, but the public's perception remains > dedicated to the notion that if you want value, buy a Steinway. > I'm not sure I follow your rationale about loosing $80,000 value, but in our > neck of the woods, unrestored Steinway grands sell as high, if not higher, > than a new Yamaha C3. Restored Steinways sell for 50-60% above that. That's > not too shabby! > I think that what it "boils" down to is we are debating trivial > philosophical explanations as to why the sell & resale market is what it is. > The costs of manufacturing new pianos is pretty cut and dry, as their costs > are driven by actual operating costs. The resale market, on the other hand, > is based upon other factors. Is the company still in business, are parts > still available for that model, bla bla bla. It's also driven by perception, > the thing I think this debate is rooted in. > I get a kick out of watching the PBS antique auction channel. I love how > they come to the agreement on a particular item's worth. It's purely hype > and perception that drives the collectable market, and Steinway is apart of > that market. > Tom Servinsky, RPT > ----- Original Message ----- > From: "Farrell" <mfarrel2@tampabay.rr.com> > To: <pianotech@ptg.org> > Sent: Sunday, July 29, 2001 7:44 AM > Subject: Re: Steinway > > > > Maybe the bottom line in my rant was that you take a Steinway that costs > > between $35,000 and $90,000 today (model M through D). Take the same model > > that is 70 or 80 years old, and it is worth $5,000 to $10,000. Take a > Story > > & Clark (or any other Brand X) that costs - how much - maybe priced like a > > Kawai or so - $15,000 for a six-foot black (oops - ebony!) grand. What > would > > a 75 year old Sorry lil' Cluck be worth today - maybe $2,000 (I realize > > zero, but you know as well as I that if the keys make some piano-related > > noise, someone will buy it - A Diamond in the Rough!). So which piano > holds > > its value better, one that looses $80,000 in value, or one that looses > > $13,000? Or let's stick with the six-foot example - one that looses > $40,000 > > in value or one that looses $13,000? Don't get me wrong - I would rather > > play a Steinway for 75 years rather than the cheaper piano - but we are > > considering a money investment here, not how nice a piano plays or sounds > > (or at least the ones that sneak out of NY with non-reverse-crown > > soundboards). > > > > I think the point is that no piano is a good long-term investment of money > > with the intention to grow your money. So why advertise it as such? Unless > > of course you are willing to make a profit at any cost. It may well be a > > better investment than a porterhouse steak (in the long term), but > > advertisement of it being a quality investment of money is BS. I have > heard > > the story many times, and I know well that many, many folks read that junk > > and believe it. You can call them dumb, but just like Ed McMann, et. al. > > selling sweepstakes tickets to old folks that use their life savings to > > order $5,000 magazine subscriptions and then fly to Tampa to claim their > > non-existent winnings, it is just plain unethical. Just because an > > advertisement does not tell an outright lie, it is not necessarily > truthful. > > They are simply preying on folks that are not piano knowledgeable, and > that > > stinks. > > > > Terry Farrell > > > > ----- Original Message ----- > > From: "Steve Grattan" <lostchordclinic@ameritech.net> > > To: <mfarrel2@tampabay.rr.com> > > Sent: Saturday, July 28, 2001 1:35 PM > > Subject: Steinway > > > > > > > Hi, I looked up a new Steinway in the 1991 Ancott Directory and the B > was > > > $37,040.00 and the D was > > > 56,040.00. Both are ebony prices. > > > > > > Steve Grattan, Associate > > > Lost Chord Clinic > > > 1602 Griswold Street > > > Port Huron, MI 48060 > > > lostchordclinic@ameritech.net > > > > > > > > >
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