Terry What I'm saying is that many old uprights that you've experienced a good really sound with the original and not worn out hammers have hammer weights significantly lower than the average garden variety replacement hammers from any supplier. You've probably noticed some uprights where at least the top 30 notes have been tapered to reduce weight. Many makers did this. Why we ask? As you say too much weight can choke the sound especially the ever sensitive treble sections due to ,too much hammer contact time with the string. Also in uprights as in grand pianos of the early 1900's the hammer weights were lighter than modern hammer weights. I discovered this by weighing old v.s. new hammers. And hearing a darker sound out of unenlightened sets of hammers that I have installed. What I hear you asking is what are the boundaries of light v.s.heavy hammer weights. For example on a stwy O/L/M note c-4 in the bass is typically around 8 grams. My typical starting weight on the 14 l.b. sapele hammers I use is about 10.5 grams. That means removing the extra weight (if I need to) and I can do it. But If my starting new hammer weight is 11grams or higher I can't get down to it. I would probably except 8.5 if the action could handle it but no more. Often I'm changing knuckle placement slightly or as is required thru preliminary analysis to mitigate extra weight either for touch ,tone or both. I log how many leads ,reg parameters, original touchweight etc. I calculate the weight of every C note hammer( new and old) on every action we do. Basically I,m trying take this actions "picture" before I decide on my hammer weights. But after a while you can guess what you'll find. I can send you some samples spec.sheets if you like for comparative information as I log each one. You sound like you might enjoy and go wild with an inexpensive gram scale,I did. It changed my life.Pianotek has one for I think 100 ish u.s. All your other presuppositions are right on target. It will just take more time and futzing for you to know how to manipulate hammer weights for a desired outcome. Rule of thumb is most most all pianos will tolerate more weight from note on to aboutC-5 or slightly higher then watch out. The tone will often be slightly darker with more weight. Got to go. Best Dale Erwin ----- Original Message ----- From: "Farrell" <mfarrel2@tampabay.rr.com> To: <pianotech@ptg.org> Sent: Sunday, July 01, 2001 6:48 AM Subject: Re: Upright Hammer Selection > OK, now you've really got my curiosity. "Lots of extra weight to remove and > it really improves the tone." My understanding of hammer weight is that it > has two effects. First, on touchweight: the heavier the hammer, the more it > will add to touchweight - just that simple. Second is tone: a too-light > hammer will produce less power, less dynamics, adding weight will improve > overall piano power/color-range/etc., adding more weight will continue > hammer improvements until you get to a critical weight where it is too much > weight and you start to hear a bit distorted sound. Stay just below that > too-heavy weight. > > Please keep in mind here that I have almost zero personal/professional > experience with all this hammer weight stuff - I'm just trying to learn in > what direction popular thinking lies. Just trying to probe the hornet's > nest! > > Are you saying that perhaps some hammers may be past this maximum weight > zone and lightening them up a bit will get them to a weight where they are > near their performance maximum, and producing optimum tone? Or are you > suggesting that (I suppose within some given reasonable weight range) the > more you lighten the hammer, the more tone will improve? Two very different > ways of thinking - am I clear on that? > > Terry Farrell > > ----- Original Message ----- > From: "Erwinpiano" <Erwinpiano@email.msn.com> > To: <pianotech@ptg.org> > Sent: Saturday, June 30, 2001 12:45 PM > Subject: Fw: Upright Hammer Selection > > > > Terry > > > > You are right about too much weight effecting tone/repetition in > > uprights. By now you know I'll suggest Ronsen hammers but whatever you use > > it is good practice to taper the hammers as on a grand if to heavy (and > most > > are) When I started weighing upright hammers and comparing old to new hmmr > > weights, wow was I shocked. Lots of extra weight to remove and it really > > improves the tone. > > > > Dale Erwin > > > > > > ----- Original Message ----- > > From: "Farrell" <mfarrel2@tampabay.rr.com> > > To: <pianotech@ptg.org> > > Sent: Saturday, June 30, 2001 6:36 AM > > Subject: Upright Hammer Selection > > > > > > > Does anyone have new hammer recommendations (what's your favorite > flavor?) > > > for turn-of-the-century 54" Steinway & Mason & Hamlin? I am also > concerned > > > about hammer weight. I understand its effect on tone and touchweight on > > the > > > grand, but on the vertical it would seem that hammer weight would affect > > > tone in a similar way, but touchweight would be different - I should > think > > > it would have a greater effect on inertia and less an effect on down and > > up > > > weights. How does all this shake out? Thanks again for input. > > > > > > Terry Farrell > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >
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