more on this temperament thing

[David Love]

My point is that for most jazz pianists that I know, an altered V chord in
the key of C should have the same character as and altered V chord in the
key of Ab.  Seems simple enough.

David Love

----- Original Message -----
From: "David J. Severance" <severanc@mail.wsu.edu>
To: <pianotech@ptg.org>
Sent: October 19, 2001 4:46 PM
Subject: Re: more on this temperament thing


>
> David
>
> Bill Evan's 12 tone tune is the only atonal jazz composition I can think
> of if there are more please let me know.  Again I think you are confusing
> modulation with tonality which has a very specific meaning.  Atonality is
> a compositional technique that was developed by Arnold Schoenberg and is
> the systematic avoidance of permitting any single pitch to sound as a
> tonal center.  There were a variety of ways that these composers
> accomplished this that I won't go into here.  But the point I'm trying to
> make is that tonality is achieved at the compositional level not the
> performance level.  The  altered extensions a jazz pianist uses has
> nothing
> at all to do with whether or not the piece is tonal or atonal.  If instead
> what you are saying is that jazz musicians prefer to achieve color with
> their choice of chord extentions rather than unequal temperaments I agree
> with you and ,in fact, have stated that in this forum. I have to take
> issue with your first sentence, however. Jazzers improvise the melody,
> the
> rhythm the chord voicings but the one thing they don't improvise are the
> changes! You can certainly do that up front, have it on the lead sheet but
> that falls under the heading of composition or arranging not
> improvisation.
>
> David Severance
>
>  On Fri, 19 Oct 2001, David Love wrote:
>
> > While many jazz compositions do have a tonal center, improvisational
> > traditions take the pieces to a number of different keys and the return
to
> > the tonic is not always emphasized.  If a jazz musician is playing in F
and
> > uses C7 chord with a flat 5th and flat 9th and then modulates to Db,
that
> > Ab7 chord with a flat 5th and flat 9th will have a dramatically
different
> > character.  My experience is that most jazz musicians don't want that.
> >
> > David Love
> >
> > ----- Original Message -----
> > From: "david severance" <severanc@mail.wsu.edu>
> > To: <pianotech@ptg.org>
> > Sent: October 19, 2001 9:31 AM
> > Subject: Re: more on this temperament thing
> >
> >
> > >   Once you get into music without a tonal center,
> > > >i.e. some impressionist music, jazz, etc., then ET is better as you
don't
> > > >want key differences to be enhanced.
> > > >
> > > >David Love
> > >
> > > David
> > >
> > > I think you are confusing your musical terminology.  Most, if not all,
> > > Impressionistic and Jazz are tonal in nature.  That is to say they
have a
> > > key center.  This doesn't mean that there are not transitory
modulations
> > to
> > > other keys within the piece.  If anything Jazz is the form that is all
> > about
> > > tonality.  A jazzer never meant a ii V7 I progression he didn't like,
in
> > > fact we add them in where ever we can.  In western music you find the
> > atonal
> > > music in the works of the serious composer's of the 20th Century such
as
> > > Scheonberg, Aban Berg, Bartok and later Stravinsky and others.
> > Interesting
> > > music.
> > >
> > > David Severance
> > >
> >
>