more on this temperament thing...

[Tom Servinsky]

David,
Your welcome.
Tom Servinsky,RPT
----- Original Message -----
From: "David Ilvedson" <ilvey@sbcglobal.net>
To: "pianotech" <pianotech@ptg.org>
Sent: Saturday, October 20, 2001 12:17 AM
Subject: Re: more on this temperament thing...


> Thanks Tom...very interesting!
>
> David I.
>
>
>
> *********** REPLY SEPARATOR  ***********
>
> On 10/19/01 at 10:29 PM Tom Servinsky wrote:
>
> >David,
> >The tuning of wind and string instruments is completely "just" tuning.
> >ET or HT temperament does not come into play at all. "Just" tuning is
> >referred to the tuning of absolutely pure intervals.
> > Obviously most of these instruments are capable of playing only one note
> >at
> >time so their tuning responsibilities have several criteria to meet:
> >Most orchestral instruments must be put into  good relative tune by the
> >player. That is, they must have a good semblance to concert A440 through
> >out
> >the instrument in all octaves. The problem is  all orchestral instruments
> >are inherently relatively out of tune within themselves, so a good player
> >must thoroughly understand his/her instrument and no where the trouble
> >spots
> >are.
> >Orchestral players must all have the ability to react and adjust their
> >tuning to be in tune with other instruments playing within that chord.
> >Absolutely pure octaves, 5ths,4ths, and even 3rds must be dead on clean.
> >So if the melody line is being played by an instrument which has a note
> >which tends to be sharp, then the other instruments playing within that
> >chord must adjust up or down to "just" tune to make that interval
> >absolutely
> >pure.
> >The interesting aspect of playing in an orchestra is the pitch is
> >constantly
> >changing to correct and adjust with whatever is being played.  Good case
> in
> >point, take a oboe player who basically plays very well in tune but has a
> >middle G which tends to play sharp. Good orchestras will adjust to  that
> >sharpness in a spilt second to "just" tune that particular sequence than
> >return back to the A440 pitch center.
> >So to answer your question, no... temperament does not play into wind and
> >string instruments tuning.
> >Again, as stated earlier, it's amazing that the orchestral tuning and the
> >tuning of a piano, be it ET or HT with all the complexities they require,
> >still exist and astound audiences as well as they have done.
> >Tom Servinsky,RPT
> >----- Original Message -----
> >From: "David Ilvedson" <ilvey@sbcglobal.net>
> >To: "pianotech" <pianotech@ptg.org>
> >Sent: Friday, October 19, 2001 5:54 PM
> >Subject: Re: more on this temperament thing...
> >
> >
> >> Ron,
> >>
> >> Of course some pianists are going to like HT.  I have talked with one
> >great
> >> jazz pianist and he hated HT, absolutely hated it.  I don't believe for
> >> second that the majority would ever take HT over ET on a regular basis.
> >> Question:  Do other instruments have to be set up for HT?  What is the
> >> tuning on a saxophone for instance?  Is tuned to some sort of a ET?
> >> Obviously pitch can be altered as playing somewhat...how much?
> >>
> >> *********** REPLY SEPARATOR  ***********
> >>
> >> On 10/19/01 at 7:18 PM Ron Koval wrote:
> >>
> >> >In response to those that have talked about playing music that is not
> in
> >> >the
> >> >"right" keys for alternate temperaments, I'd like to share a little
> >story.
> >> >
> >> >I work at a performing arts high school, where I freely experiment on
> >the
> >> >faculty.  A few years ago, a new faculty member came that is a jazz
> >> >pianist.
> >> >  This coincided with my interest in tuning alternate temperaments, so
> I
> >> >set
> >> >on his piano many different HTs.  At that time I used the mind-set of
> >> >making
> >> >the thirds at the top of the circle of fifths sound BETTER than those
> at
> >> >the
> >> >bottom.
> >> >
> >> >An ****AHAAAA**** moment with this faculty member forced me to rethink
> >my
> >> >'tuner's' mindset.  I had recently retuned his piano and he showed up
> at
> >> >lunch and said, "wow, what did you do to my piano?  I played this
chord
> >> >and
> >> >just had to let it ring, it sounded so great!"
> >> >
> >> >Being in the tuner's mindset, I thought to myself, "He must have liked
> >the
> >>
> >> >C,G, or F chord, with the real smooth thirds."  Imagine my surprise
> when
> >> >he
> >> >said it was a Db arpeggio from the middle to the top; over a B, F#,
and
> >an
> >> >A
> >> >in the bass.
> >> >
> >> >*******AHAAAAAAA********  What an alternate temperament gives a
> composer
> >> >or
> >> >a pianist is like a painter's pallette;  more tone color to play with.
> >> >Blue
> >> >isn't better or worse than red, it's just different. Likewise, C isn't
> >> >better than F#, it's just different. In the hands of an accomplished
> >> >composer, or performer, alternate temperaments enhance the pallette of
> >> >sound
> >> >available through modulation.
> >> >
> >> >something to chew on this weekend!
> >> >
> >> >Ron Koval
> >> >
> >> >Chicagoland
> >> >
> >> >_________________________________________________________________
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> >>
> >>
> >>
>
>
>