stability of pitch raises

[Kevin E. Ramsey]

    Terry, all I can say is, been there, after all these years, although my
speed may be a little quicker, still doing it the same way you do. It's the
only way to take it home and keep it there. Hope I meet you some day.


----- Original Message -----
From: "Farrell" <mfarrel2@tampabay.rr.com>
To: <pianotech@ptg.org>
Sent: Friday, August 31, 2001 5:53 AM
Subject: Re: stability of pitch raises


> I have your answer - from my perspective. Keep in mind that I am not able
to
> do these 6 minute pitch raises and 20 minute tunings - yet.
>
> If my first pass starts with the pitch within a couple cents, any pitch
> correction will be minor and I can just whip though the pass (whip -
> relatively speaking). If my first pass is a significant pitch correction
it
> will take a bit longer because I will be adjusting my SAT every octave or
> so - more frequently if the flat pitch varies greatly from note to note.
It
> will also slow me up a bit more because the piano likely has not been
tuned
> for many years and I will want to drop the pitch a tad with my first
motion
> in case there is any corrosion between the string and top bearing point. I
> will also make my tension increase slower, the more corrosion is apparent
> and the older the piano is. So, there are a couple factors that make the
> first pass take longer as the pitch is farther off to start with - a good
> ten minute difference for me often.
>
> Beyond that, the tuning itself will take more time. If that first pass
> started out within 2 cents, it may have been a 20 to 25 minute pass. The
> tuning pass will be so close that it (even for me) will go lightning fast
> (again, relatively speaking). On a decent piano, my tuning pass in this
> situation will sometimes be as fast as 40 minutes. If the first pass had
> raised the pitch 50 cents or whatever, the tuning pass will start out
close,
> but many notes will be a couple/few cents off. Maybe you will have that
one
> octave in the tenor or treble that did not cooperate and you need to make
> one quick separate pass over it to straighten out the pitch raise. When
> doing the tuning pass after the significant pitch correction, I will spend
> significantly more time on each string - a tad more to get it where I want
> (just because it was further off to start with) - but probably more
> significantly because I will work the string a bit to be sure that I get
the
> tension in all the string segments evened out. Especially in the treble
> sections. You can just sit there and repeatedly & rapidly & firmly & with
a
> controlled appropriate amount of authority, depress the key (note, I never
> whack the key) and watch the pitch go down. I try to make all these notes
as
> stable as I reasonably can (I also do some extra whacking - oops, did I
say
> that! - during the pitch raise). So the tuning pass also takes more time
to
> do after the larger pitch raise. My tuning pass time after a 50 cent or
more
> pitch raise will usually be in the 60 to 75 minutes range.
>
> So therefore, the 50 cent pitch raise took me about 40 more minutes to
> complete the two passes than the two quick passes for the up-to-pitch
piano.
> I charge $40 for one pitch raise pass. That is also why I pro-rate the
small
> pitch raise in the 5 to 20 cent range ($2 per cent in that range)
>
> That's where I am at. I trust that answers your question. Feel less
bothered
> now? (he said in a non-sarcastic way)   :-)
>
> I look at where I am at, and I know anyone can say that "gee whiz, Jim
> Coleman or Randy Potter (or about a billion other tuners) is a better
piano
> tuner than you - they are faster also". And they would be right. I know
> that. We all gotta start somewhere. I do try very hard to progress and do
> the best job I can. That is likely why perhaps I usually am doing two pass
> tunings - sometimes perhaps in situations that do not warrant it - to
> compensate for some of my shortcomings. I don't think I charge more than
> anyone else. And considering my typical clientele (nobody even has a clue
> whether the piano is in tune or not - I know that), I am quite sure I am
> making them happy. I had a new client call for an appt. yesterday. I gave
> him the standard thing about it might need a pitch raise. He came right
back
> with "Oh, I know it will need a pitch raise. It was last tuned at 435, and
I
> want it up to 440". Totally blew me out of my chair. I had never had
anyone
> even know what those numbers might mean. I'll be watching real close how
he
> likes the tuning I put on his piano (newer Yamaha Disklavier). It is
> entirely possible that I might even do the pitch raise, and then do a two
> pass tuning - again, just to compensate for whatever shortcomings I may
have
> and just because I am not so self-confident at this early stage of my
tuning
> career. I realize that after tuning 50,000 pianos one can develop an acute
> sense of what and how much is appropriate for each situation. I'm not
there
> yet.
>
> But, I am getting there. Ssssslllllloooooowwwwwwllllllllyyyyyyyy! Take
care
> Ron.
>
> Terry Farrell
>
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: "Ron Nossaman" <RNossaman@KSCABLE.com>
> To: <pianotech@ptg.org>
> Sent: Friday, August 31, 2001 12:48 AM
> Subject: Re: stability of pitch raises
>
>
> > In all recorded history (so far) no one has asked the glaringly obvious
> > question. I can't imagine why not, so I had just as well do it and get
it
> > over with.
> >
> > If folks are habitually doing two pass tunings anyway, and since they're
> > probably using an ETD that does pitch raises within a couple of cents of
> > dead on in one pass (as we read repeatedly), why would they find it
> > necessary to charge anything above the cost of a tuning for a pitch
> > adjustment? This one has bothered me for some time now.
> >
> > Ron N