stability of pitch raises (Ron's question)

[Eugenia Carter]

Hi Ron,

In a previous post, I think in a response to Paul, I very quickly defined
how I measure the overall pitch of the piano. I said:

<2. Measure the piano overall (I measure all the As since A0 is the default
first note). This gives you a general idea of where the piano's current
pitch is but keep in mind that as you are tuning upward, those original
measurements will probably change.>

This approach may not be definitive enough for you, but it works for me. It
allows me to know if the bass is close or far, if the tenor is close or far,
if the treble is close or far, and the same for all the notes in between. It
allows me to know the overall, general pitch of the piano. It gives me
enough information so that I will know whether or not a regular tuning will
suffice or if I need to plan to do a pitch raise. Works for me. :-)

I also suggested to Paul to <3. Begin at A0, but remember to re-measure at
least every octave and re-calculate the overpull.>
This re-measuring and re-setting the ETD (no matter which one is being used)
is one of the key elements in getting the pitch adjustment close enough that
it will be ready to be fine tuned. After all, that is exactly the same
process that we use when we tune aurally, isn't it?

Does that splain it better?

Gina



----- Original Message -----
From: "Ron Nossaman" <RNossaman@KSCABLE.com>
To: <pianotech@ptg.org>
Sent: Monday, September 03, 2001 12:16 AM
Subject: Re: stability of pitch raises (Ron's question)


> >Define two pass tunings, please. If you mean raising or
> >lowering the pitch, no I don't habitually do that. If you mean going back
> >over quite a bit of the piano to make sure it's a stable tuning, yep I do
> >that almost every tuning.
>
> Hi Gina,
> Two pass tuning - going over the whole piano twice. That's it. Somewhere
> along the line, someone mentioned that they habitually made two passes
over
> the piano while doing a standard tuning, and a bunch of other two pass
> tuners soon confessed that they did too. I suspect we all do a final check
> and touch up before closing the lid, but these folks say they make two
full
> passes on every single tuning they do.
>
>
> >Yes I use an ETD. I love my Accutuner!
>
> That would be the Point 2 pre qualification.
>
>
>
> >When a piano is sharp or flat more than 5 cents, I am not capable of
tuning
> >it in one pass so that the tuning will last long enough and stay stable
long
> >enough for me to collect my check, gather my tools, get to my car and
drive
> >away before some, or quite a few, notes slip out of tune. Ergo, it is
> >necessary for me to tune it at least twice, sometimes more depending on
how
> >far out it is, to make it stable so that I am happy with the result and
feel
> >good about collecting $$$ for the work I have just done. When I do extra
> >work, I charge extra for it.
>
> And that is, once again, my point in asking the question. If someone is
> habitually doing two pass tunings, and the pitch raise with an ETD is as
> easy , quick, and accurate as we read here continually, what's the
> justification for the extra charge when it doesn't take appreciably more
> work and time? That's why my question was posed to those who HABITUALLY do
> full two pass tunings, use an ETD AND charge extra for pitch adjustments.
> It just doesn't compute for me.
>
>
> >Missed the question so...
> >If the piano is more than 5 cents off, overall, and it is necessary to
tune
> >the piano at 440, then I will do a pitch raise/lower. Since I am doing
extra
> >work, I charge extra for the extra work. When a piano is off pitch fairly
> >equally overall and is only a few cents off A440 and if the client is ok
> >with allowing me to float pitch, I will tune it where it is and not do a
> >pitch raise/lower and do not charge for something I didn't have to do.
>
> So here is the question, restated so I don't have to go dig it out again:
> For those who prorate pitch adjustment charges according to how far off
> pitch the piano is, how do you determine how far off pitch the piano is?
> Caution, this is apparently a lot harder question than it would seem to
be.
>
>
>
> >>How can one compute charges on something they can't define?>
> >
> >I do define it using my Accutuner. I measure the piano overall before I
> >begin tuning so that I know about how much it is off pitch overall.
>
> Please define measuring the pitch overall. That was the second question.
>
>
> >None of my charges are set forth as punishment because the client hasn't
> >tuned their piano recently. My charges are based on the amount of work,
and
> >especially the extra amount of work I have to do.
>
> Which is why I originally asked question #1, to determine how there was
> extra work involved when folks were already doing two pass tunings and the
> pitch adjustment was so quick, easy, and accurate with an ETD. If it's a
> purely punitive charge, so be it. That qualifies as a reason just like any
> other. I'm just asking for the real stuff instead of the smoke. This whole
> thing keys on the premise of habitual two pass tunings with an ETD, so
> anything deviating from that doesn't really apply to the question.
>
>
> >Having said all the above, there are many times I do pitch raises and do
not
> >charge. Client relationships are always a factor for me. A steady client
> >whose piano has reacted adversely to humidity changes, yeah I'll pitch
> >raise/lower it and not charge. I do note it on the invoice though. And
for
> >me, this is one of the bestest reasons for being an independent
technician.
> >I get to decide what I charge and when to charge it. :-)
>
> Don't we all? Then there's the touch up regulation and voicing, and the
> compulsory bench leg tightening. We'd all make more money if we were total
> jerks.
>
>
> >Good questions Ron. It's been enlightening and interesting reading the
> >responses.
> >
> >Gina
>
> Just getting that way.
> Ron N