Hi David
I appreciate the pricing rundown on rebuilding the Grand old uprights. I
love them as many do and I have long thought the time would come when it
would be affordable to rebuild them at a profit and it sounds like it's
getting closer to reality.
However as I've said many times marketing is everything and as I market
my rebuilding services in the greater S.F. bay area I have a feel for what
the market may bear. I'm not seeing this request or demand for uprights in
any condition for any price. In my shop we still rebuild an occasional
upright but when the price stars to exceed 5k most clients will pass. Please
any other Bay area guys weigh in on this.
Willis Snyder said years ago aim for the high end of the market and he
was so right.
For my business if it wasn't for the high end there would be no end.
however , I do believe the upright is another market which will need to be
cultivated over time as piano shaped object factories go out of business and
public demand for these twentieth century marvels made of wood from a by
gone era increases with marketing skills and technology.
As a full time rebuilder ,and I'm sure this will resonate with othersas
well,it's not as simple as you've made it sound to rebuild an upright and
sell it for a profit for $6,500.00 U.S. I'm impressed that Mr. Bolduc can
provide the parts at the price you stated(Quote sooundboard with bridges
capped and pinblock) I can barely buy the raw materials for that. I know
things are changing. However I'm always amazed at the end of a job the
amount of hours really involved. The only way to make this feasible from my
point of view is cheaper labor(hours are hours) and somebody willing to buy
the end product. That's it.
Thanks again for the review of the class. I hope to see it myself
sometime.
Best----Dale Erwin
----- Original Message -----
From: "David Renaud" <drjazzca@yahoo.ca>
To: <pianotech@ptg.org>
Sent: Sunday, September 23, 2001 8:25 AM
Subject: Re: FULL rebuilding evolution/uprights
> Farrell wrote:
> I sure would like to hear more on this.
> $6,500 US for a complete rebuild -
> all you say plus new action, refinish,
> etc. seems way low. I don't see how
> a small shop can do it well for under
> the $10,000 to $12,000 range. In my
> opinion, I would rather buy one of
> these than an new Yamaha U3 for $12,000.
> --------------------
> OK. Good question on economics.
>
> The following outlines my thinking on this.
>
> Comments welcome....just thinking it through.
>
> 1)Firstly Ottawa/Canada pricing is cheaper.
> An average RPT tuning is $80 Canadian(about$51US) &
> hourly rates $35 to $55 Can ($23 to $36US per hour).
> This is in the city, in the countryside there are
> some people much cheaper. Even in the city
> there a few are $55 Can.(about $35US).
> Some will respond with we must raise our prices.
> The problem is $80Can is a good upper end
> at this time in this city.
>
> 2) Bolduc's pricing and procedures
> are very efficient. He sends the
> board back with ribs, precrowned,
> The pinblock is reproduced and just
> about ready to install, and the
> bridge has a new cap ready
> to knotch. The cost for all these
> parts is approx. $1700 Canadian,
> about $1100 US.
> It took two days, not pushing too
> hard, and the soundboard, pinblock
> were in, drilled, and bridges finished.
> Removal of upright pinblock takes about
> 3 hours, and the glue joint is ready
> and clean,installation about two hours,
> he drilled the thing in about 30 min.
> Upright soundboard upright did not take
> long either.
> So what is two days labor. For me
> normally $360 per day(four tunings)
> is $720 Canadian, About $460 US. plus
> the parts $1100 US and some shipping
> say $1800US to round it up. Now if
> there is to be a thousand dollars(Can)
> additional profit on parts, labor,
> say $2500US total so far.
> Other common average Ottawa prices
> in Can dollars. Stringing with parts
> and pitch raising $1400, key bushing
> $250, Hammers with parts(Able) $600,
> dampers($150), cover keys($250) 8 hrs,
> alignment/regulation/repair day
> ($360)a few tunings-4($360),
> Overhall pedals($80), lets include
> repining, re glue jacks, so on for
> two days($720),
>
> This list adds $4170 Canadian(about$2710 US).
> With the structural work gives
> us a total of about $5200 US.
> Add refinishing here for about$2000Can.
> Already $1000 profit included above
> and beyond labor.
>
> I arrive at about a $6500US figure.
> Much lower then the $10,000---$12000 US mentioned.
>
> Now consider that there is a dealer
> in Ottawa already selling Hientzman
> uprights with new stings, new hammers,
> refinishing,and regulation for $10,000
> Canadian. This without new soundboard,
> new pinblock, or new bridge caps.
>
> Keep in mind, I have not done this yet,
> just thinking it through.
>
> Cheers
> Dave Renaud
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
> --- Farrell <mfarrel2@tampabay.rr.com> wrote:
> > I sure would like to hear more on this. $6,500 US
> > for a complete rebuild -
> > all you say plus new action, refinish, etc. seems
> > way low. I don't see how
> > a small shop can do it well for under the $10,000 to
> > $12,000 range. In my
> > opinion, I would rather buy one of these than an new
> > Yamaha U3 for $12,000.
> > But unfortunately, I am in the business of
> > rebuilding these pianos, not
> > buying them. Will they sell? And for what price?
> >
> > Terry Farrell
> >
> > ----- Original Message -----
> > From: "David Renaud" <drjazzca@yahoo.ca>
> > To: <pianotech@ptg.org>
> > Sent: Saturday, September 22, 2001 3:48 PM
> > Subject: FULL rebuilding evolution/uprights
> >
> >
> > > We had Mr Bolduc show our chapter how to
> > install
> > > new soundboard, new pinblock, and bridge caps
> > > in an upright piano. We did it to a 1920's
> > Hientzman.
> > > He is a good teacher, and gave a comprehensive
> > > presentation as he actually did it, and compleated
> > > the job. It is very time efficient with his
> > > techniques.
> > >
> > > I would like to hear from anyone who currently
> > is
> > > performing such rebuilds.
> > >
> > > 1) Have you found a market for these.
> > > in the $10,000 Canadian, $6500 US range.
> > >
> > > 2) Does cliental hear and understand the
> > difference
> > > enough to be contracting such work on uprights.
> > >
> > > 3) How did starting to do high end full rebuilds
> > > change your business, attitudes.
> > >
> > > Our region does not yet have anyone doing
> > upright
> > > or grand soundboards, done locally, as a matter or
> > > normal rebuilding practice. We have not evolved to
> > the
> > > point where some are quoting all or nothing
> > packages
> > > quite so comprehensive. I believe there is room
> > and
> > > a market for a comprehensive approach that may be
> > > expensive, but may cater to a market.
> > >
> > > I am hoping some experienced rebuilders would
> > > have a few words of wisdom to share about their
> > > own experience evolving into this type of work.
> > >
> > > Did you question if the market would be there,
> > > and were you surprised at the result, or did you
> > > find it a labor of love, and a very small market.
> > >
> > > Any questions about the class/procedure welcome.
> > >
> > >
> > > Cheers
> > > Dave Renaud
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> >
> _______________________________________________________
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> > > Get your free @yahoo.ca address at
> > http://mail.yahoo.ca
> >
>
>
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